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Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

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  • Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
    Thats good to hear. That said folks can bring up Robert Byrd when talking about democrats with checkered history, but then again there were also folks like Barry Goldwater, a well known GOP member whom opposed the civil rights act of 1964.

    Also there was the Democratic-Republican Party, with members such as Andrew Jackson, so hey maybe the Democratic-Republican Party party started it.

    My point here is that I feel it would be inaccurate to say X political party started segregation in the USA. Rather we can see that segregation of whites and blacks, slavery, women not in politics, was in fact a part of the early history of the USA. This type of behavior has also been seen in other past societies as well.

    If someone claims the GOP is historically more racist then the democratic side or vs versa, then I would say this would be a unnecessary, and incorrect thing to say.

    During the 1930s/1940s, a large # of African Americans supported the democratic party. During WW2, there was a group of African American pilots known as the Tuskegee airman. I would say that the Tuskegee airman played a big role in contributing to more and more white Americans changing their previously held anti African American viewpoints.

    There have been some folks saying that President Obama only works for the blacks, but the GOP itself has lost the black vote wrt the Presidential election each time since 1932. So therefore would these folks also say that FDR was only working for blacks, or that Truman only worked for blacks, after all these two won the black vote. I also think its crucial to take note of the statistic below which suggests that during the elections of FDR, that the number of blacks identifying themselves as Republicans was about the same as the number who thought of themselves as Democrats.




    Blacks mostly voted Republican from after the Civil War and through the early part of the 20th century. That’s not surprising when one considers that Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican president, and the white, segregationist politicians who governed Southern states in those days were Democrats. The Democratic Party didn’t welcome blacks then, and it wasn’t until 1924 that blacks were even permitted to attend Democratic conventions in any official capacity. Most blacks lived in the South, where they were mostly prevented from voting at all.

    ...

    The election of Roosevelt in 1932 marked the beginning of a change. He got 71 percent of the black vote for president in 1936 and did nearly that well in the next two elections, according to historical figures kept by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. But even then, the number of blacks identifying themselves as Republicans was about the same as the number who thought of themselves as Democrats.

    ...

    But then President Lyndon B. Johnson pushed through the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 (outlawing segregation in public places) and his eventual Republican opponent, Sen. Barry Goldwater, opposed it. Johnson got 94 percent of the black vote that year, still a record for any presidential election.

    The following year Johnson signed the 1965 Voting Rights Act. No Republican presidential candidate has gotten more than 15 percent of the black vote since.

    more,

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/bla...ocratic-party/
    I forget - was Major General Goldwater Jewish?

    Last edited by lakechampainer; 30 Jun 15, 15:28.

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    • The Confederate flag should be removed from state grounds, government buildings, but that's where it stops. A government should represent all of it's citizens, not just a few (however it would appear that is not the case anymore, as the entire federal government seems as though it doesn't give a rats *** about ordinary Americans).
      Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by drivin-fool View Post
        The Confederate flag should be removed from state grounds, government buildings, but that's where it stops. A government should represent all of it's citizens, not just a few (however it would appear that is not the case anymore, as the entire federal government seems as though it doesn't give a rats *** about ordinary Americans).
        It should be removed from US government buildings because it's a symbol of armed rebellion against the United States and the greatest threat this country has ever faced.

        That said, no private citizen should ever be stopped from displaying it in any way they chose. There's nothing inherently wrong with the flag and people ascribe far more meaning to it than it actually has, namely as the standard of the Army of Norther Virginia and the jack of the Confederate Navy. If anything this whole mess is actually making me start to sympathize with the people who want to fly the flag. I generally think of it as a relic of traitors but I'm also a sucker for people being able to do what they want in spite of the PC brigade. I guess it's the old disapproving of what they do but defending their right to do it thing. That and anything that pisses off the social justice warriors can't be all bad.
        "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
          So for most of the 20th century the Democrats had to appease their southern Democrats to maintain their electoral domination in Congress.
          Appease them by backing Jim Crow laws and segregation...

          That is why it took so long for the civil rights act to pass.

          That is why it took women so long to get the right to vote.

          That is why the KKK was formed.

          That is why the NRA was formed.

          Earlier Crash claimed:

          Originally posted by Crash View Post
          Then they are morons...you can't unwrap racism and supremacy from the Confederate Flag. It's not racism or heritage....it's a racist heritage.
          Do you agree with his statement?
          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
            Do you agree with his statement?
            I believe so, yes. I don't think anyone can cherry pick what a symbol means. Anyone who claims that the confederate flag means one thing alone is trying to impose just one impression or meaning onto that symbol.

            Comment


            • Too bad the rest of the world has no idea how to compromise.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                That is why the NRA was formed.
                What does the NRA have to do with any of this?
                "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                Comment


                • hi
                  Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                  I believe so, yes. I don't think anyone can cherry pick what a symbol means. Anyone who claims that the confederate flag means one thing alone is trying to impose just one impression or meaning onto that symbol.
                  What are you talking about Willis?

                  The Nazi's didn't approve of smoking cigarettes so that's what their swastika represents!


                  ....oh but..ya...er...sorry sir...forget that they unfortunately didn't disapprove of smoking millions of Jews to death with gas.



                  Oh...the KKK...they are awesome because they know how to keep their laundry very white.

                  The nice thing about a burning cross in your front yard at sunrise...easier to find your newspaper.

                  Best part of having to use the door around the back....closer to the black washroom.

                  The best thing about going to Robert E Lee High school? He's dead...the loser can no longer keep your family in slavery.

                  ...is this mic on...



                  ....
                  Last edited by Crash; 01 Jul 15, 00:59.
                  #occupyarmchairgeneral.
                  Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
                  Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                    What does the NRA have to do with any of this?
                    The Democrats didn't want Blacks to be armed, the NRA was founded to protect Black Rights to the 2nd Amendmant.
                    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                      I believe so, yes. I don't think anyone can cherry pick what a symbol means. Anyone who claims that the confederate flag means one thing alone is trying to impose just one impression or meaning onto that symbol.
                      With that in mind, do you think the Democrats can be "unwrapped from racism and white supremacy?
                      Last edited by Nichols; 01 Jul 15, 01:05.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Crash View Post
                        hi

                        What are you talking about Willis?


                        Oh...the KKK...they are awesome because they know how to keep their laundry very white.

                        The nice thing about a burning cross in your front yard at sunrise...easier to find your newspaper.

                        Best part of having to use the door around the back....closer to the black washroom.

                        The best thing about going to Robert E Lee High school? He's dead...the loser can no longer keep your family in slavery.

                        ...is this mic on...



                        ....
                        ....and they were Demcrats....

                        Too bad you can't change history Crash.
                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                          ....and they were Demcrats....

                          Too bad you can't change history Crash.
                          You are masterdebating with yourself again...

                          Show me the post in 21 pages where someone said racism is limited to Republicans. In fact, for the people with a clue we are debating the Confederate flag...it's you that's limited the flag to Republican's, isnt it??

                          In fact, I'm positive racism exists above the south,eh...hummm?
                          Last edited by Crash; 01 Jul 15, 01:15.
                          #occupyarmchairgeneral.
                          Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
                          Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                            With that in mind, do you think the Democrats can be "unwrapped from racism and white supremacy?
                            Originally posted by Crash View Post
                            You are masterdebating with yourself again...

                            Show me the post in 21 pages where someone said racism is limited to Republicans. In fact, for the people with a clue we are debating the Confederate flag...it's you that's limited the flag to Republican's, isnt it??

                            In fact, I'm positive racism exists above the south,eh...hummm?
                            Sweetheart, I'm not from Virginia.

                            So are you now claiming that you can't "unwrap racism and supremacy" from the CBF..... But you can unwrap it from the Democrats? What have you been smoking?
                            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                            Comment


                            • One thing that I find interesting is that there does seem to be a tendency for military people to honor fallen soldiers even their enemies.

                              Is there a poll somewhere that shows how people with military experience feel about the confederate battle flag as opposed to the general population?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                                With that in mind, do you think the Democrats can be "unwrapped from racism and white supremacy?
                                Yes, because a political party changes with time and subsequent generations. The GOP of today is not the same party that freed the slaves; the democrats are not the same party that won WW2. Parties are even more fluid than symbols, in many ways, because parties can act, while symbols are mere reflections.

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