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Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

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  • Originally posted by guthrieba View Post
    I guess that the one thing that I don't understand is how removing the Battle Flag from the State House Grounds would have had any impact on the church shooting.

    I suppose that it is simply time for a truly futile and meaningless gesture.
    Please find an opponent of the flag being on the Capital grounds that makes that contention.

    Many African-American residents of SC see the CBF as a poke at them and at the Feds when the SC government raised it over the Capital dome in 1962 and then in a political deal moved it to its current location in 2001. The killer was an blatant racist that killed for his racist beliefs. Racism is the tie between the killings and the flag.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

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    • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
      Immaterial, keep slinging however.
      Immaterial? Those slave ships with their American flags started this whole mess.
      My worst jump story:
      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
      No lie.

      ~
      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by guthrieba View Post
        I guess that the one thing that I don't understand is how removing the Battle Flag from the State House Grounds would have had any impact on the church shooting.
        None that I can discern.

        Originally posted by guthrieba View Post
        I suppose that it is simply time for a truly futile and meaningless gesture.
        I wouldn't call it meaningless. I mean, we know for a fact that secession was predicated upon a desire to preserve slavery, and we know that most of the Southern states didn't start flying CSA colors officially again until the 1950s and '60s, in direct response to the civil rights and desegregation movements, so repudiating the sentiments that motivated those states to fly the CSA colors again is, at least in my view, a significant statement. At the very least it can be a subtle but visible nod towards "the better angels of our nature."
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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        • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          Immaterial? Those slave ships with their American flags started this whole mess.
          Yes, we know. Thanks for the immaterial info.

          The fact that you can't think through the differences is amazing, or are just pretending you can't which is strange.
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
            Immaterial? Those slave ships with their American flags started this whole mess.
            The United States banned the importation of slaves from abroad by the enactment of the Slave Trade Act of 1808. It was part of the series of deals struck to ensure ratification of the Constitution. So slave ships would have only flown Old Glory for thirty-two years, or nineteen years under the Constitution.
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

            Comment


            • If it's as important to those who want it to come down as they are saying, they should mob up, storm the statehouse grounds, and take the thing down. And if it isn't important enough to do that, then it probably isn't all that important. Otherwise, it's just another ploy for the cable news networks to sell advertising, at the end of the day. Racism, whether real or perceived, sells big in that respect, as they have discovered over the past year or so.

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              • Originally posted by squidly View Post
                If it's as important to those who want it to come down as they are saying, they should mob up, storm the statehouse grounds, and take the thing down. And if it isn't important enough to do that, then it probably isn't all that important. Otherwise, it's just another ploy for the cable news networks to sell advertising, at the end of the day. Racism, whether real or perceived, sells big in that respect, as they have discovered over the past year or so.
                Or the GOP Governor could request that the Legislature, that has the power to do something about it take up this issue, debate it and then possibly vote on it. Sounds like a fine idea and is how once again this issue has been trust back in the lime light.
                Last edited by Combat Engineer; 25 Jun 15, 14:59.
                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

                Comment


                • Originally posted by squidly View Post
                  If it's as important to those who want it to come down as they are saying, they should mob up, storm the statehouse grounds, and take the thing down. And if it isn't important enough to do that, then it probably isn't all that important. Otherwise, it's just another ploy for the cable news networks to sell advertising, at the end of the day. Racism, whether real or perceived, sells big in that respect, as they have discovered over the past year or so.
                  The whole point of forming a proper government is so that great questions of public import can be debated dispassionately, not subject to heated emotions. Or perhaps you feel that right was done when the APA decided to no longer judge homosexuality an illness in response to an attempt by protesters to storm their convention?
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    The whole point of forming a proper government is so that great questions of public import can be debated dispassionately, not subject to heated emotions.
                    While true, this doesn't always apply when the government and/or law is unjust, as it has so often been, and no doubt continues to be in some respects.

                    Anyway, back to flags, I think you could make a fair point that the US flag is every bit as racist as the Confederate battle flag, if you wanted to.... after all, it flew over a nation founded by slave owners, and where slavery was legal for 80 or so years.

                    But just speaking for myself, I'm not so into (or out of) flags in general. To me they are mainly just pieces of cloth.... (somebody will probably come along now to tell me how someone died for a flag, but I question that... very few if any soldiers ever fought for a flag).

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                    • One of the trends in America is the one where no one is allowed to make a comment that is against "right thinkers" (African-American Congressman's comment).

                      As if anyone who does is a "wrong thinker" and thereby objective of ridicule and scorn.

                      Whatever happened to freedom to say anything you like? Is that passe' now?

                      Of is "right think" the law of the land now?

                      Here's one for the masses..... no matter how hard one tries, no matter what one does or says IS going to "offend" someone. .....and of all the things in the World to get "upset" over or to be "offended" over a flag is just about the last of the list.

                      An object, even a meaningful one, is NOT something to get one's panties all in a bunch over. I mean.... Jesus Christ, just how much of a robot are you anyway?

                      GG
                      "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

                      "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
                        One of the trends in America is the one where no one is allowed to make a comment that is against "right thinkers" (African-American Congressman's comment).

                        As if anyone who does is a "wrong thinker" and thereby objective of ridicule and scorn.

                        Whatever happened to freedom to say anything you like? Is that passe' now?

                        Of is "right think" the law of the land now?

                        Here's one for the masses..... no matter how hard one tries, no matter what one does or says IS going to "offend" someone. .....and of all the things in the World to get "upset" over or to be "offended" over a flag is just about the last of the list.

                        An object, even a meaningful one, is NOT something to get one's panties all in a bunch over. I mean.... Jesus Christ, just how much of a robot are you anyway?


                        GG
                        Correct, so why are people getting so "offended", "upset" etc when some people want the flag to come down? Seems that with all the other stuff to be upset over they should just say 'Sure' change the SC and take it down...

                        Goes both ways.
                        Last edited by Combat Engineer; 25 Jun 15, 17:32.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          None that I can discern.



                          I wouldn't call it meaningless. I mean, we know for a fact that secession was predicated upon a desire to preserve slavery, and we know that most of the Southern states didn't start flying CSA colors officially again until the 1950s and '60s, in direct response to the civil rights and desegregation movements, [or the Centennial of the CW may have had something to do with it] so repudiating the sentiments that motivated those states to fly the CSA colors again is, at least in my view, a significant statement.
                          Segregation doesn't exist anymore...so what's their motivation for flying it now?
                          {}

                          "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

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                          • Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                            Segregation doesn't exist anymore...so what's their motivation for flying it now?
                            That's a good question. A very good question.

                            Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                            the Centennial of the CW may have had something to do with it
                            The State of Georgia altered her flag to include the CSA's saltire in 1957 -- three years before the centennial of Georgia's secession. South Carolina started flying the CSA colors on the grounds of her statehouse in 1962, two years after the centennial of her secession. That has me thinking that the centennial of the Civil War had little to do with those choices.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                            • The State House of any state is meant to represent every resident of that state equally and it should never display anything that millions of them fine so offensive, something that was used to tell them that they had no place there.

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                              • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                                I wouldn't call it meaningless. I mean, we know for a fact that secession was predicated upon a desire to preserve slavery, and we know that most of the Southern states didn't start flying CSA colors officially again until the 1950s and '60s, in direct response to the civil rights and desegregation movements, so repudiating the sentiments that motivated those states to fly the CSA colors again is, at least in my view, a significant statement. At the very least it can be a subtle but visible nod towards "the better angels of our nature."
                                But, then,why the rush (and vehemence) now?

                                Remove the Flag from the State House Grounds - sure, should've been done years ago.

                                But the situation has moved far beyond that in the past few days.

                                Eurasia has always been at war with Oceania.
                                Don't leave good whiskey for the damn Yankees!" John Hunt Morgan, Eagleport, Ohio, July 23, 1863

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