Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by Crash View Post
    Then they are morons...you can't unwrap racism and supremacy from the Confederate Flag. It's not racism or heritage....it's a racist heritage.

    Trying to argue that the flag, or those behind it, don't represent racism and supremacy...you're going to have to do better as your first attempt is laughable.


    You will note that I made no claim as to what the flag represented. As a result, your effort to change the subject to me, or what I never said, doesn't make sense.

    I merely made note of the irony of your relying on your own prejudices when trying to condemn that trait in others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crash
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    Interesting that you would rely on your own prejudices to condemn what you assume to be their prejudices.
    Not all people who like the confederate flag are racists or white supremacists.
    Then they are morons...you can't unwrap racism and supremacy from the Confederate Flag. It's not racism or heritage....it's a racist heritage.

    Trying to argue that the flag, or those behind it, don't represent racism and supremacy...you're going to have to do better as your first attempt is laughable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by Crash View Post
    ...people are allowed to remove all doubt they are losers and racists and States are free notify the world that they still support systemic racism and white supremacy...


    Interesting that you would rely on your own prejudices to condemn what you assume to be their prejudices.
    Not all people who like the confederate flag are racists or white supremacists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crash
    replied
    Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
    Kind of like how the federal government still supports and practices systemic racism? Affirmative action, racial quotas and all that. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of the rebel flag or the traitors it represented by any means but banning symbols no matter what they represent or people think they represent is not how this country works.
    Oh yes...I am well aware of the level of "nationalism" lusted for in the US. Nothing like a good flag to "separate" people!

    It is in the best interest of the wealthy and their puppet, the government and the courts, to enable it, fan the flames in fact, creating separation in the masses....keeps the unwashed in line and staring at their own bellybuttons.

    Leave a comment:


  • frisco17
    replied
    Originally posted by Crash View Post
    ...people are allowed to remove all doubt they are losers and racists and States are free notify the world that they still support systemic racism and white supremacy...
    Kind of like how the federal government still supports and practices systemic racism? Affirmative action, racial quotas and all that. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of the rebel flag or the traitors it represented by any means but banning symbols no matter what they represent or people think they represent is not how this country works.
    Last edited by frisco17; 30 Jun 15, 09:17.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crash
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

    Freedom of speech protects the right to display the confederate flag.
    ...people are allowed to remove all doubt they are losers and racists and States are free notify the world that they still support systemic racism and white supremacy...
    Last edited by Crash; 30 Jun 15, 08:50.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    Where there is a long standing historical pattern of oppression a reasonable man may assume that it will continue unless acted upon by some outside force. That the constitution has been violated to ensure that individual rights were protected represents a hierarchy of rights that is defensible.

    Individual rights must supersede state rights or the purpose that civilization serves is mute. Just as with kings who are unconcerned with the welfare of their subjects a State that does not protect the rights of it's citizens abdicates it's authority.

    Free speech is an individual right not a right a State pocesses. Just as a State cannot decide which religion it supports it should shy away from symbolism that may be perceived to support an ideology that is non inclusive or hostile to individual rights.


    The flag isn't "oppression". It may be insulting, but that is all. It does not affect anyone's individuals rights in any way whatsoever. As a result, your post doesn't address the issue.

    Freedom of speech protects the right to display the confederate flag.

    Since the State is sovereign, it has the right to chose what its flag looks like, subject to the will of the voters.

    Your comments about "non-inclusive ideology" also don't seem applicable because, almost by definition, all ideologies are "non-inclusive" .

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    So the First Amendment and State sovereignty can be revoked because earlier generations were bad?
    Where there is a long standing historical pattern of oppression a reasonable man may assume that it will continue unless acted upon by some outside force. That the constitution has been violated to ensure that individual rights were protected represents a hierarchy of rights that is defensible.

    Individual rights must supersede state rights or the purpose that civilization serves is mute. Just as with kings who are unconcerned with the welfare of their subjects a State that does not protect the rights of it's citizens abdicates it's authority.

    Free speech is an individual right not a right a State pocesses. Just as a State cannot decide which religion it supports it should shy away from symbolism that may be perceived to support an ideology that is non inclusive or hostile to individual rights.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    That is even more of a reason that the leaders could have been treated like most losers of other such wars. What happened to the losers of the English civil war? I'll leave out the results of the Russian Civil War/Revolution.
    But they weren't:I do not see the utility to blame the victors of the Civil War because they did not hang the losers.If they did not decide to hang them, it is not on you to say that they should have been hanged .

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    That would be fine if those same states hadn't allowed almost a hundred years of torture, murder and suppression. You reap what you sow.


    So the First Amendment and State sovereignty can be revoked because earlier generations were bad?

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    Freedom of speech allows us to celebrate and honor whatever we wish.
    Although I suspect that the current intolerance of the left, which is similar to the previous intolerance of the right, will result in efforts to restrict that right.

    The US does not honor or celebrate the confederate flag, it is the individual states that do so. The presence of the confederate symbol on their State flag is presumably a reflection of the will of the citizens of that State and the Feds do not have a right to change the flag. (The recent SCOTUS decisions notwithstanding).
    It is up to the people of the State to decide what to do, not for the Feds.

    That would be fine if those same states hadn't allowed almost a hundred years of torture, murder and suppression. You reap what you sow.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    Hysterics notwithstanding, why is the US the only nation that tolerates the celebration of people who were traitors and tried to rend the nation apart?

    Heritage be damned! That heritage is one of treason and slavery. Celebrate and honor that? No freaking way!


    Freedom of speech allows us to celebrate and honor whatever we wish.
    Although I suspect that the current intolerance of the left, which is similar to the previous intolerance of the right, will result in efforts to restrict that right.

    The US does not honor or celebrate the confederate flag, it is the individual states that do so. The presence of the confederate symbol on their State flag is presumably a reflection of the will of the citizens of that State and the Feds do not have a right to change the flag. (The recent SCOTUS decisions notwithstanding).
    It is up to the people of the State to decide what to do, not for the Feds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    That is even more of a reason that the leaders could have been treated like most losers of other such wars. What happened to the losers of the English civil war? I'll leave out the results of the Russian Civil War/Revolution.
    That's why I said it was a key point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
    One key point that you left out......they lost the war.
    That is even more of a reason that the leaders could have been treated like most losers of other such wars. What happened to the losers of the English civil war? I'll leave out the results of the Russian Civil War/Revolution.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    Hysterics notwithstanding, why is the US the only nation that tolerates the celebration of people who were traitors and tried to rend the nation apart?
    One key point that you left out......they lost the war.

    Leave a comment:

Latest Topics

Collapse

Working...
X