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Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

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  • Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

    What is the history of the Confederate flag?

    In December 1860, South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union just months after Abraham Lincoln, from the anti-slavery Republican Party, was elected president. In April 1861, the first shots of the Civil War were fired at Fort Sumter, S.C.

    Ten other states would eventually follow South Carolina in secession, forming the Confederate States of America. However, of the three flags the Confederacy would go on to adopt, none are the Confederate flag that is traditionally recognized today. The "Stars and Bars" flag, currently the subject of controversy, was actually the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia.

    After the war ended, the symbol became a source of Southern pride and heritage, as well as a remembrance of Confederate soldiers who died in battle. But as racism and segregation gripped the nation in the century following, it became a divisive and violent emblem of the Ku Klux Klan and white supremacist groups. It was also the symbol of the States' Rights Democratic Party, or "Dixiecrats," that formed in 1948 to oppose civil-rights platforms of the Democratic Party. Then-South Carolina Gov. Strom Thurmond was the splinter group's nominee for president that same year; he won 39 electoral votes.


    Now, the flag is a frequent emblem of modern white supremacist groups. The alleged Charleston shooter, Dylann Storm Roof, was photographed holding the Confederate flag in images on his website. Not all southerners, who believe the flag should be flown, however, see it as a racist symbol. They see it, instead, as a symbol of southern pride or as a way to remember ancestors who fought in the Civil War.

    more,

    http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpo...nfederate-flag

    Here are some pro CSA flag arguments

    Don’t Tear Down the Confederate Battle Flag

    Like many Southern boys, I grew up with two flags hanging in my room — an American flag and a Confederate battle flag. The American flag was enormous, taking up much of one wall. It was the “1776” flag, with 13 stars in a circle in the field of blue. My grandmother bought it for me on the bicentennial, and for years it was a treasured possession. The flag took on a special meaning later in life, when I learned more of a family history that included service with General Washington, suffering at Valley Forge.


    more,


    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...hooting-debate

    It is a symbol of pride and heritage.

    The confederate flag does not stand for racism. The confederate is a symbol of southern pride and heritage. I have ancestors that fought and died for the confederacy and part of the reason have one hanging on my wall is because of that. The confederate flag does not represent white power because there were black soldiers that willingly fought for the confederacy. Just because the KKK sometimes flies the confederate flag does not mean there is any relation of the two. The KKK more commonly flies the US flag and no one has every said that flag is racist.



    Here are some folks arguing against the CSA flag,

    Take Down the Confederate Flag—Now


    Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for an hour, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag. Visitors to Charleston have long been treated to South Carolina’s attempt to clean its history and depict its secession as something other than a war to guarantee the enslavement of the majority of its residents. This notion is belied by any serious interrogation of the Civil War and the primary documents of its instigators. Yet the Confederate battle flag—the flag of Dylann Roof—still flies on the Capitol grounds in Columbia.

    more,

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...ag-now/396290/

    Confederate Flag Expresses Ingratitude to the United States and Gives Blacks the Middle Finger

    The confederate flag is a rude offensive symbol of a sad chapter in our nation's history. The flag represents brutal racism and a yearning to separate from the greatest nation this world has ever seen: the United States. Also, the central issue of the Civil War was essentially slavery and not states rights. If the central issue of the Civil War was indeed state's rights, then we would have had a civil war between the federalists and anti-federalists during the time of the constitutional convention. Also, why do southerners want to celebrate being completely defeated by the Union? They are essentially celebrating this when they wave the flag of the Confederacy that was defeated 150 years ago. You don't see Germans waving the Nazi flag all over the country. Accept that the South lost the war and move on.

    more,

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/shoul...flag-be-banned
    70
    Yes
    50.00%
    35
    No
    34.29%
    24
    Undecided
    15.71%
    11

  • #2
    Extremist pov

    We have seen Sean Hannity of Fox News bring on black panther party members as guests, and we also know that there are a # of KKK supporters here in the USA,



    I listened to what James Moore, the KKK member pictured above, had to say. And I disagree with the views and the approach of Mr Moore.

    Moore says he is tired of not being able to stand up for his people, and he seems quite serious about his views. Moore says that Jews control the media and hollywood here in the USA. Moore also claims that Adam(Bible figure) was a white man.

    Moore is very open and honest about his views, just as other people are open and honest about their viewpoints. That said I think I could find a way to positively influence the views of folks such as Mr Moore. Its one thing for folks to support the confederate flag and their ancestors whom fought for the CSA, but I believe folks such as Mr Moore are extremists who go against the values of what it means to be a southern gentlemen.
    Last edited by Taieb el-Okbi; 23 Jun 15, 12:29. Reason: fixed a typo

    Comment


    • #3
      While I have the Confederate First National Flag as my front license plate, I must reluctantly agree that the Battle Flag should come down. It simply carries too much baggage. My stance on this matter is about eight or nine years old and has nothing to do with the present controversy.
      Don't leave good whiskey for the damn Yankees!" John Hunt Morgan, Eagleport, Ohio, July 23, 1863

      Comment


      • #4
        Leave it up. Give em an inch...

        Comment


        • #5
          The Confederate flag is part of South Carolina's heritage; as it is in most southern States. It is not a symbol of racism, oppression or any other malevolent thing.

          However, the fact that a sizeable minority of Americans view it in much the same way as the Nazi swastika and the fact that it was the flag of secession... it should not fly over State capitals.

          That said, any efforts to ban it from public display by private citizens should be resisted...
          Last edited by The Doctor; 23 Jun 15, 12:58.
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

          Comment


          • #6
            ...Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?...
            That is up to the good citizens of the state of South Carolina.

            Comment


            • #7
              Taking it down will never be enough, in the mean time the country becomes more divided.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                Taking it down will never be enough, in the mean time the country becomes more divided.
                Not that I have a strong opinion about the CSA flag one way or the other -- but how will keeping it up restrict division?
                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ForIAmSparticus
                  Good for them, what relevance does it have with the issue?
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    Good for them, what relevance does it have with the issue?
                    oops meant to only post this on the other thread.
                    “Come and take it!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ForIAmSparticus View Post
                      oops meant to only post this on the other thread.
                      That is OK, I ask a different question in that thread....

                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        That is OK, I ask a different question in that thread....

                        Yes I see
                        “Come and take it!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ForIAmSparticus View Post
                          Yes I see
                          Example

                          http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/l...213239621.html

                          A Stratford, Conn., neighborhood is reacting to one man's decision to fly the Nazi flag outside his home. Residents say this symbol represents so many years of hatred and pure evil.
                          Joseph Sincavage put the flag up on Sunday to go along with his American, Marine Corps and Vatican flags.
                          Sincavage, who flew a Confederate flag in the same place six months prior, said he took an oath in the Marine Corps to defend the Constitution.
                          "Whatever kind of attention he's trying to attract from it ... he's going to get it,' said Jones.
                          Stratford City Council members said, for the most part, that while the flag is offensive, there's nothing that can be done.
                          Sincavage said, weather permitting, the flags will be back up Thursday morning.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post

                            A poor way to get his point across obviously. I understand that legally no one can prevent him from flying flag, but I would no equate the nazi flag to the confederate.
                            “Come and take it!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ForIAmSparticus View Post
                              A poor way to get his point across obviously. I understand that legally no one can prevent him from flying flag, but I would no equate the nazi flag to the confederate.
                              The institutional slavery practiced in the south was inhuman and evil. No other way to describe it.
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment

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