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US Supreme Court rebuts Jerusalem passport law

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  • US Supreme Court rebuts Jerusalem passport law

    The US Supreme Court has invalidated a 2002 passport law allowing Jerusalem-born American citizens to claim their birthplace as Israel.

    Congress went too far in passing the law, which would change US State Department policy, the court ruled.

    Currently, the US State Department does not list Israel as the place of birth for Jerusalem-born Americans.
    BBC - Full Article

  • #2
    If Congress can't change State Department policy, maybe they should just abolish the department... Since only Congress has the power to establish departments.
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    • #3
      So, what nationality are they, Martian? There is no Palestinian state. Jerusalem isn't in Jordan or Syria...

      So, what nationality would be attributed to them?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        So, what nationality are they, Martian? There is no Palestinian state. Jerusalem isn't in Jordan or Syria...

        So, what nationality would be attributed to them?
        American.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
          American.
          Okay, but they can't claim anything else being born outside the US just because they were born in Jerusalem?

          I understand why the state department would want this. Obama and his Minions of Ignorance hate Israel and Jerusalem being a divided city of sorts claimed by both Israel and the Palestinians (there being no state of Palestine) is a situation where this administration would firmly side with Palestine.

          By denying an American citizen having a child there having that child also registered as an Israeli is just one small way the administration can show they don't side with Israel over who owns Jerusalem. The administration can't say they should be Palestinian American as there is no Palestine as such to make that claim.

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          • #6
            No, they can still get an Israeli passport and claim dual citizenship. It's strictly a matter of their Place of Birth as listed on their US Passport. The article even states that Bush didn't enforce the law, either.

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            • #7
              When the state of Israel was established, Jerusalem was regarded as an International City. Is Israel the only country that calls Jerusalem an Israeli city? Is that not the situation today?

              http://www.ask.com/wiki/Positions_on...apn&ap=ask.com

              If there is a question of where Jerusalem should be placed as a national or international entity then I can see why the Supreme Court would not rule that a person born in Jerusalem would be an Israeli.

              Would that not be the SCOTUS taking a position on a condition in another country? Can they do it legally?
              Homo homini lupus

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                When the state of Israel was established, Jerusalem was regarded as an International City. Is Israel the only country that calls Jerusalem an Israeli city? Is that not the situation today?

                http://www.ask.com/wiki/Positions_on...apn&ap=ask.com

                If there is a question of where Jerusalem should be placed as a national or international entity then I can see why the Supreme Court would not rule that a person born in Jerusalem would be an Israeli.

                Would that not be the SCOTUS taking a position on a condition in another country? Can they do it legally?
                Jerusalem is the capital city of Israel according to Israel. No entity on the face of the Earth, other than Israel, can determine their nation's capital city. End of discussion.

                SCOTUS' position is that the current occupants of the White House do not recognize this indisputable fact.
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                • #9
                  I am going to quote from the Wikipedia (Ask) article
                  There are differing legal and diplomatic positions on Jerusalem held within the international community.[1] Scholars are divided over the legal status of Jerusalem under international law.[2] No country in the world except for Israel has recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Many do not recognize it as a city that is properly Israel's. Many UN member states formally adhere to the United Nations proposal that Jerusalem should have an international status.[3]

                  The chief dispute revolves around Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem, while broader agreement exists regarding the Israeli presence in West Jerusalem.[2] De jure, the majority of UN member states and most international organisations do not recognise Israel's ownership of East Jerusalem which occurred after the 1967 Six-Day War, nor its 1980 Jerusalem Law proclamation, which declared a "complete and united" Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.[4] As a result, foreign embassies are generally located in Tel Aviv and its suburbs.

                  Jerusalem is a contentious issue in final status peace talks between Israel and Palestine, both of which claim Jerusalem as their capital.[5] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has stated that "Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people and will remain under Israeli sovereignty for eternity."[6]The European Union has stated that Jerusalem's status is that of corpus separatum.[7][8]
                  I would suspect that if other countries are questioning the validity of Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel and keep their embassies in Tel Aviv as originally placed at the beginning of Israel and the EU says that Jerusalem has a special status as a separated body then there might be a matter of how a passport of an American born in Jerusalem, Israel would be accepted by other states. It might cause a person with a birthplace so designated to not be permitted to enter or travel in other countries.

                  Doc, if Palestine claims Jerusalem as its capital also, does your argument hold water? The Palestinian state has some recognition from other states such as Sweden, and the Vatican. So if Palestine says that Jerusalem is its capital then obviously there is a question of which country can claim Jerusalem as capital.

                  A list of countries that recognize the State of Palestine can be found here.
                  http://www.ask.com/wiki/Internationa...apn&ap=ask.com
                  Homo homini lupus

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    So, what nationality are they, Martian? There is no Palestinian state. Jerusalem isn't in Jordan or Syria...

                    So, what nationality would be attributed to them?
                    American or Israeli.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                      Congress went too far in passing the law, which would change US State Department policy, the court ruled.
                      What policy is that?

                      Leave the decision itself out of the equation for a sec. The US State Department has no policy on the matter, unless you consider lack of policy a policy. US officials were asked numerous times about their policy towards Jerusalem and did not once provide an official statement.

                      The one biggest thing that could have come out of the ruling (and so far didn't) is a decision about the State Department policy, not a modification of it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Golani View Post
                        What policy is that?

                        Leave the decision itself out of the equation for a sec. The US State Department has no policy on the matter, unless you consider lack of policy a policy. US officials were asked numerous times about their policy towards Jerusalem and did not once provide an official statement.

                        The one biggest thing that could have come out of the ruling (and so far didn't) is a decision about the State Department policy, not a modification of it.
                        I believe the policy is not to acknowledge Jerusalem as part of Israel, if I'm not mistaken.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                          When the state of Israel was established, Jerusalem was regarded as an International City.
                          At that time there was also an East and West Berlin. Things change.
                          Unlike West and East Berlin, which was an on the ground situation, Jerusalem was to-be internationally governed, in theory, and was not so even for one second in 1948.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                            I believe the policy is not to acknowledge Jerusalem as part of Israel, if I'm not mistaken.
                            If that was correct than we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, since there would be no need for a Supreme Court decision and the kid would simply have "Jerusalem, Israel" in his passport.

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                            • #15
                              WASHINGTON The Supreme Court declined Monday to insert itself into the middle of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by second-guessing U.S. policy on Jerusalem.

                              Ruling just a few months after a feud between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the justices refused to allow Americans born in Jerusalem to have their passports changed to reflect Israel as their birthplace, as Congress demanded more than a decade ago.

                              ...

                              The status of Jerusalem has been at the top of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict ever since Israel was recognized in 1948. The official U.S. policy is spelled out in a State Department manual: "For a person born in Jerusalem, write JERUSALEM as the place of birth in the passport. Do not write Israel, Jordan or West Bank."

                              President George W. Bush signed a massive foreign relations law in 2002 that included a section stating that for Americans born in Jerusalem, "the secretary shall, upon the request of the citizen or the citizen's legal guardian, record the place of birth as Israel." However, Bush indicated he would ignore that provision as unconstitutional, and the Obama administration agrees.

                              http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...port/21649243/

                              Jews have been in Israel for thousands of years. Modern day Jews have a very noted connection to Jerusalem, Jerusalem means a lot to the Jews as it does to other people. Also a large # of Israeli Jews are for peace with Palestine and agree that either a two state solution or a peaceful one state solution would solve the Israel/Palestine issue, as the current status quo is unacceptable for many people of Israel/Palestine. Palestinian Christians of today are connected to Jerusalem, the Palestinian Christians have been in Jerusalem practically since the beginning of Christianity. Regardless of opinion on Israel/Palestine I agree with the following stance of the USA,

                              The official U.S. policy is spelled out in a State Department manual: "For a person born in Jerusalem, write JERUSALEM as the place of birth in the passport. Do not write Israel, Jordan or West Bank."

                              I'm hopeful for the Palestine Israel situation, the Vatican has recently recognized Palestine, not to mention the Vatican speaks positively of both Israels and Palestinians. the US gov continues to be careful when it comes to recognition of Jerusalem, while at the same time, the US gov speaks positively of both sides and how working together is the way to go.

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