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General Michael Hayden and the NSA

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  • General Michael Hayden and the NSA

    I don't agree with the opinion that the NSA is acting or trying to act as 'big brother.' That isn't their mandate.

    And those that believe that characterization, such as the moronic Rand Paul, don't understand intelligence work and what the intelligence is used for.

    Intelligence failures are usually broadcast wholesale, but the successes are neither lauded or even talked about.

    General Hayden is a very competent intelligence officer and his knowledge and counsel should be heeded for the defense of the republic.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/426738812...#sp=show-clips
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    I don't agree with the opinion that the NSA is acting or trying to act as 'big brother.' That isn't their mandate.

    And those that believe that characterization, such as the moronic Rand Paul, don't understand intelligence work and what the intelligence is used for.

    Intelligence failures are usually broadcast wholesale, but the successes are neither lauded or even talked about.

    General Hayden is a very competent intelligence officer and his knowledge and counsel should be heeded for the defense of the republic.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/426738812...#sp=show-clips
    We very rarely disagree Massena, but in this case we do, I don't trust Hayden and I don't trust the NSA at all nor do I agree with Rand Paul.
    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

    Comment


    • #3
      The perceived need for privacy is always a result of mistrust. We should strive for a society in which liberty not privacy is key to protecting ourselves.

      In the past privacy was the providence of the rich and powerful and the teaming masses had little opportunity to achieve it nor much need for it. The inequality of privacy remains an issue as most of what is needed to know does not concern knowledge about the average citizen. While the NSA spies on the average citizen who is watching the too big to fail and ponzi scheme money men.

      Rand Paul may be a misguided libertarian conservative but I don't doubt his integrity as much as I doubt the integrity of many of the people at the NSA.

      The way to remove the need for privacy is to denounce all the unnecessary and intrusive prohibitive laws that are the real threat to liberty. This is the essential point to take away from the libertarian position.

      Prohibition and the war on drugs are excellent examples of how to create a nation of organized criminality. If you want to create a population that needs to be watched the best way is to excessively restrict their freedoms.

      A free and responsible citizenry will do all the internal spying that is necessary for the state if they do not fear authority.
      We hunt the hunters

      Comment


      • #4
        The NSA is squashing the press, trampling the 1st amendment by intimidation, collecting private communications.
        All of this is old news, all was exposed in the 1970s, and we made progress restricting the NSA until 9/11. In the aftermath of the terror attacks of that terrible day we allowed those protections to be thrown out in the name of patriotism.
        It may have seemed like a good idea at the time, maybe we thought, "we can trust our government".
        We totally forgot what our founders envisioned. In exchange for the promise of security we willingly forfeited our protection against an intrusive government, and anyone that takes this view, such as Frank Church did, is derided.
        No doubt I will be pillered and will have my patriotism questioned because I question the constitutional right of NSA to collect personal communications, spy on reporters and use strong arm tactics to silence critics, a true Republic would not fear its critics.
        But that horse left the barn a long time ago. We have become what our forefathers adbohed .
        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
          We very rarely disagree Massena, but in this case we do, I don't trust Hayden and I don't trust the NSA at all nor do I agree with Rand Paul.
          Disagreement is a good thing. I do respect your opinion and we can respectfully agree to disagree on Hayden and the NSA, though I do believe you are incorrect.

          We do agree on Rand Paul. To my mind he is either very ignorant or a blackguard, or both.



          Sincerely,
          M
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            The perceived need for privacy is always a result of mistrust. We should strive for a society in which liberty not privacy is key to protecting ourselves.

            In the past privacy was the providence of the rich and powerful and the teaming masses had little opportunity to achieve it nor much need for it. The inequality of privacy remains an issue as most of what is needed to know does not concern knowledge about the average citizen. While the NSA spies on the average citizen who is watching the too big to fail and ponzi scheme money men.

            Rand Paul may be a misguided libertarian conservative but I don't doubt his integrity as much as I doubt the integrity of many of the people at the NSA.

            The way to remove the need for privacy is to denounce all the unnecessary and intrusive prohibitive laws that are the real threat to liberty. This is the essential point to take away from the libertarian position.

            Prohibition and the war on drugs are excellent examples of how to create a nation of organized criminality. If you want to create a population that needs to be watched the best way is to excessively restrict their freedoms.

            A free and responsible citizenry will do all the internal spying that is necessary for the state if they do not fear authority.
            Would you mind listing the freedoms that have been 'restricted'?

            Sincerely,
            M
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Massena View Post
              Would you mind listing the freedoms that have been 'restricted'?

              Sincerely,
              M

              That kinda stumps em every-time...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                don't understand intelligence work and what the intelligence is used for.
                Something to keep in mind, many times too much intel bogs down the decision making process.
                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                  Something to keep in mind, many times too much intel bogs down the decision making process.
                  That is correct. Sometimes it does. However, limiting the ability to collect information that can be turned into intelligence is a major handicap.

                  Sincerely,
                  M
                  We are not now that strength which in old days
                  Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                  Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                  To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Darth Holliday View Post
                    That kinda stumps em every-time...


                    Sincerely,
                    M
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      That is correct. Sometimes it does. However, limiting the ability to collect information that can be turned into intelligence is a major handicap.

                      Sincerely,
                      M
                      I'm on the fence on this.

                      Getting warrants to target specific intel makes sense. Collecting everything leads to a lot of clutter that needs to be developed.

                      I wonder how much time and effort has been focused on ACG members.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                        I'm on the fence on this.

                        Getting warrants to target specific intel makes sense. Collecting everything leads to a lot of clutter that needs to be developed.

                        I wonder how much time and effort has been focused on ACG members.
                        Well....there are a few that I would keep an eye on...

                        Sincerely,
                        M
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          The perceived need for privacy is always a result of mistrust. We should strive for a society in which liberty not privacy is key to protecting ourselves.

                          In the past privacy was the providence of the rich and powerful and the teaming masses had little opportunity to achieve it nor much need for it. The inequality of privacy remains an issue as most of what is needed to know does not concern knowledge about the average citizen. While the NSA spies on the average citizen who is watching the too big to fail and ponzi scheme money men.

                          Rand Paul may be a misguided libertarian conservative but I don't doubt his integrity as much as I doubt the integrity of many of the people at the NSA.

                          The way to remove the need for privacy is to denounce all the unnecessary and intrusive prohibitive laws that are the real threat to liberty. This is the essential point to take away from the libertarian position.

                          Prohibition and the war on drugs are excellent examples of how to create a nation of organized criminality. If you want to create a population that needs to be watched the best way is to excessively restrict their freedoms.

                          A free and responsible citizenry will do all the internal spying that is necessary for the state if they do not fear authority.
                          History says otherwise. The lack of citizen concern and self-policing is the reason why we have all of the government laws and intrusions in the first place.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                            I'm on the fence on this.

                            Getting warrants to target specific intel makes sense. Collecting everything leads to a lot of clutter that needs to be developed.

                            I wonder how much time and effort has been focused on ACG members.
                            Probably a lot more than you would expect.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                              Something to keep in mind, many times too much intel bogs down the decision making process.
                              As in: Paralysis by Analysis?
                              Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                              Comment

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