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  • #31
    Well Jackson was badly scarred on his face by Smallpox. This is usually edited out of his portraits. I believe Barrak has yet to catch Smallpox.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
      And most of today's Democrats - not to mention Americans in general - would be disgusted with Jackson.
      Originally posted by andrewza View Post
      I don't know. I would choose Andrew over Obama.
      In a heartbeat.
      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
        In a heartbeat.
        Has anybody stated the fact that Jackson was a slave owner and would today be considered a hopeless racist? This whole thread belongs in the Alternative History forum. Jackson today would be locked up for his views. Racist and quite possibly a genocidal maniac. Look up his record on dealing with Native Americans. Not good. Speculated in land deals that the government had set aside for the NAs and then agitated for war against those very same NAs. Granted he was a "man of his time" but the OP made no stipulation that we should adjust Jackson for the now. Therefore I would not want Jackson or anyone else from the 19th Century as our president today.

        Ridiculous premise for a thread.
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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        • #34
          Well Obama is a hopeless racist... I don't think he's owned slaves but I wouldn't rule out he's tried to...

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          • #35
            Jackson the "racist" hated Indians, but he also adopted a baby boy they found in a Creek Town they burned. He raised the boy as his own. His House Slaves probably ran Rachel's and his lives when he was home.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
              Has anybody stated the fact that Jackson was a slave owner and would today be considered a hopeless racist? This whole thread belongs in the Alternative History forum. Jackson today would be locked up for his views. Racist and quite possibly a genocidal maniac. Look up his record on dealing with Native Americans. Not good. Speculated in land deals that the government had set aside for the NAs and then agitated for war against those very same NAs. Granted he was a "man of his time" but the OP made no stipulation that we should adjust Jackson for the now. Therefore I would not want Jackson or anyone else from the 19th Century as our president today.

              Ridiculous premise for a thread.
              Pretty much my intitial point - it would be akin to trying to claim that Lincoln would be a good president to today's society, which would be radical and insanely liberal to men from that generation.

              What about the founding fathers? Could you imagine their horror if they saw what America was today? Women voting? Homosexuals open about their relationships?

              The men who created the Constitution would be horrified, if not violently disgusted, if they saw how far we'd moved beyond their concept of what a just or moral society should be.

              I mean, a black president. That very concept wouldn't sit well with almost every one of our presidents.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                Pretty much my intitial point - it would be akin to trying to claim that Lincoln would be a good president to today's society, which would be radical and insanely liberal to men from that generation.

                What about the founding fathers? Could you imagine their horror if they saw what America was today? Women voting? Homosexuals open about their relationships?

                The men who created the Constitution would be horrified, if not violently disgusted, if they saw how far we'd moved beyond their concept of what a just or moral society should be.

                I mean, a black president. That very concept wouldn't sit well with almost every one of our presidents.
                And if we weren't lucky enough to have them as Founding Fathers, we would not have a country. They had the strength of character and moral courage to do what they did and what they wrought was to our benefit.

                To moralize over what revisionists (in the worst sense of the word) have attempted to attribute to them is both absurd and stupid.

                These folks on their 'high moral plane' of early 21st century political correctness, inaccurate historical revisionism, and just plain ignorance just don't get it.

                Sincerely,
                M
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Well Jackson was badly scarred on his face by Smallpox. This is usually edited out of his portraits. I believe Barrak has yet to catch Smallpox.

                  Pruitt


                  And Jackson wasn't a flaming narcissist with a messaniac complex , while Obama definitely is.

                  Neither was Jackson a "community organizer". He was more likely to destroy your community for a good cause.

                  We might as well be trying to compare Obama to Lincoln or FDR, or Wilson or Harding, or....
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                    Pretty much my intitial point - it would be akin to trying to claim that Lincoln would be a good president to today's society, which would be radical and insanely liberal to men from that generation.

                    What about the founding fathers? Could you imagine their horror if they saw what America was today? Women voting? Homosexuals open about their relationships?

                    The men who created the Constitution would be horrified, if not violently disgusted, if they saw how far we'd moved beyond their concept of what a just or moral society should be.

                    I mean, a black president. That very concept wouldn't sit well with almost every one of our presidents.
                    I think they would also be horrified by things that I am, such as the NSA as Big Brother. Or the other Alphabet Soup agencies for that matter.

                    I don't think they would understand why it took so long to execute McVeigh and no doubt the same with Tsarnaev.

                    Most of them put their lives on the line multiple times.

                    Maybe the good old days weren't so good, but this sure ain't "The Best of All Possible Worlds"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Has anybody stated the fact that Jackson was a slave owner and would today be considered a hopeless racist?
                      Again, for those that can't be bothered to read the thread:

                      Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                      Not discussing personal, discussing how each President governed.
                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      This whole thread belongs in the Alternative History forum.
                      You don't understand alternative history, this isn't a 'what if' thread. It is a comparison of how two Presidents governed......it really is that simple Bob.


                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Jackson today would be locked up for his views. Racist and quite possibly a genocidal maniac. Look up his record on dealing with Native Americans. Not good. Speculated in land deals that the government had set aside for the NAs and then agitated for war against those very same NAs.

                      The correct comparisons for Obama is not Abraham Lincoln, but Andrew Jackson. The Jackson administration pulled off one of the biggest peacetime land grabs in U.S. history. In defiance of the law and the Supreme Court, he dispossessed Indians of their lands and sent them on the “Trail of Tears,” one of the darkest episodes in American history. In the name of the people, the populist Jackson imposed his own will on institutions that defied him.

                      L’État, c’est moi.

                      Obama is Jacksonian, not Lincolnesque. He listens not to the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, but to the popular wishes of the mob. In the tradition of modern Democrats, he has moved to expand the mob, then subjugate it to dependency.

                      While other American families would suffer in the aftermath of the economic downturn, Obama rewarded federal employees with raises. The Obama administration increased the size of the federal government by 10 percent since 2009, and the bureaucracy will grow even more under Obamacare.

                      Read more at http://www.commdiginews.com/history-...OSZRc5yrP0X.99


                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Granted he was a "man of his time" but the OP made no stipulation that we should adjust Jackson for the now. Therefore I would not want Jackson or anyone else from the 19th Century as our president today.
                      Again Bob, this isn't about President Jackson governing now, this is about two President's method of governing.

                      It really is a simple concept Bob.

                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Ridiculous premise for a thread.
                      If you could back out of the box that you put yourself in, maybe you would then realize how ridiculous your above statement is.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                        Pretty much my intitial point - it would be akin to trying to claim that Lincoln would be a good president to today's society, which would be radical and insanely liberal to men from that generation.

                        What about the founding fathers? Could you imagine their horror if they saw what America was today? Women voting? Homosexuals open about their relationships?

                        The men who created the Constitution would be horrified, if not violently disgusted, if they saw how far we'd moved beyond their concept of what a just or moral society should be.

                        I mean, a black president. That very concept wouldn't sit well with almost every one of our presidents.
                        Well said.
                        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          And if we weren't lucky enough to have them as Founding Fathers, we would not have a country. They had the strength of character and moral courage to do what they did and what they wrought was to our benefit.

                          To moralize over what revisionists (in the worst sense of the word) have attempted to attribute to them is both absurd and stupid.

                          These folks on their 'high moral plane' of early 21st century political correctness, inaccurate historical revisionism, and just plain ignorance just don't get it.
                          Sincerely,
                          M
                          See why I defend my Southern ancestors so much?


                          I can't rep you at the moment or I would. Well said.
                          “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                          --Salmon P. Chase

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                            Has anybody stated the fact that Jackson was a slave owner and would today be considered a hopeless racist? This whole thread belongs in the Alternative History forum. Jackson today would be locked up for his views. Racist and quite possibly a genocidal maniac. Look up his record on dealing with Native Americans. Not good. Speculated in land deals that the government had set aside for the NAs and then agitated for war against those very same NAs. Granted he was a "man of his time" but the OP made no stipulation that we should adjust Jackson for the now. Therefore I would not want Jackson or anyone else from the 19th Century as our president today.

                            Ridiculous premise for a thread.
                            I don't want President Obama as our president now. Although I agree it is hard to compare the two.
                            “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                            --Salmon P. Chase

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Savez View Post
                              See why I defend my Southern ancestors so much?

                              I can't rep you at the moment or I would. Well said.
                              I've always understood it and I certainly don't blame you and many times agree with you.

                              And thanks for the positive reinforcement.

                              Sincerely,
                              M
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I would accept Jackson as POTUS over Obama during any time period. Obama is worthless as a national leader, and worthless as a human being. For "all" of his faults, Jackson led the country. He wasn't a coward.
                                The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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