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  • This is how to handle school security!

    The Garden Valley School District in Idaho has taken a logical step to deal with school shooters. This is a very rural area where it can take LEOs up to 40 minuets to arrive.
    Here is the story.

    The isolated Garden Valley School District has installed firearms in its K-12 school building and trained staff to use them in response to an active shooter.

    Citing safety reasons, Superintendent Marc Gee won’t say how many guns and safes were installed or where they are located. This summer, the district will post signs warning that the school building is armed and educators are prepared to defend against violent intruders.

    “I can say that we consulted with our certified trainer and legal counsel on the number of and appropriate model of firearms for our situation and we followed those recommendations,” he said.

    Other districts might have guns and safes on campus, said Karen Echeverria, executive director of the Idaho School Boards Association, but Echeverria said she is not aware of any.

    Garden Valley, a rural district about 60 miles from Boise, doesn’t have a resource officer on campus. The county’s 11 deputies cover the Garden Valley, Horseshoe Bend and Basin school districts and nearly 2,000 square miles. Boise County has about 7,000 residents.

    “Garden Valley is in a unique circumstance,” Boise County Sheriff Ben Roeber said. “Where they are located geographically, we don’t have the staffing size to where we can guarantee safety. The school, knowing they were facing response times of up to 45 minutes, started seeking out different ideas and different options.”

    http://www.idahoednews.org/news/gard.../#.VWkztnBOKrX
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    Would a concealed pistol not be a better idea. I mean a shooter could empty a magazine possibly killing countless students before a teacher could draw a weapon from a safe.

    Of course it better than nothing.
    you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

    CPO Mzinyati

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by andrewza View Post
      Would a concealed pistol not be a better idea. I mean a shooter could empty a magazine possibly killing countless students before a teacher could draw a weapon from a safe.

      Of course it better than nothing.
      It opens the possibility of a teacher being disarmed by a student or intruder and the weapon employed.

      In Sandy Hook, for example, the shooter's breach of the physical security alerted staff. They would have had time to deploy a weapon from a safe. Biometic locks means a weapon can be obtained in no more time than it takes to open the door.

      And many/most US schools are locked during the school day.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        It opens the possibility of a teacher being disarmed by a student or intruder and the weapon employed.

        In Sandy Hook, for example, the shooter's breach of the physical security alerted staff. They would have had time to deploy a weapon from a safe. Biometic locks means a weapon can be obtained in no more time than it takes to open the door.

        And many/most US schools are locked during the school day.
        It means no such thing. The safe has to also be in a secure area, which means the threat has to be identified, the teacher has to leave his students when they need him most, go to the physical location of the gun safe and withdraw the weapon and then return to begin taking action, all while the armed intruder is killing kids.

        As for schools "locked during the day", anybody and everybody can get in and out of those "locked" schools at will. It's always been that way.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          It means no such thing. The safe has to also be in a secure area, which means the threat has to be identified, the teacher has to leave his students when they need him most, go to the physical location of the gun safe and withdraw the weapon and then return to begin taking action, all while the armed intruder is killing kids.

          As for schools "locked during the day", anybody and everybody can get in and out of those "locked" schools at will. It's always been that way.
          While the doors can be locked to keep people from getting in, it is no guarantee that someone from the inside won't open the door, or that the perp won't just shoot out the glass to gain entry as in the Sandy Hook shooting. Besides, it is illegal to lock the doors in such a way so that people can't leave the building. That becomes a safety issue in case of a fire or other emergency. That was found out when schools used to chain doors shut from the inside to control entry during and after school hours.
          “Breaking News,”

          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
            While the doors can be locked to keep people from getting in, it is no guarantee that someone from the inside won't open the door, or that the perp won't just shoot out the glass to gain entry as in the Sandy Hook shooting. Besides, it is illegal to lock the doors in such a way so that people can't leave the building. That becomes a safety issue in case of a fire or other emergency. That was found out when schools used to chain doors shut from the inside to control entry during and after school hours.
            A bit of combination between you and MM. After Sandy Hook, we underwent all the new safety training meetings. Lots of power points, reams of paper, and stern warnings about "it's a new day"! A list of possible teacher infractions were also included. Any of them would be followed by loss of our first born male child. Of course the focal point was that ALL EXTERIOR DOORS WILL BE LOCKED AT ALL TIMES!...
            Small HS give or take 400 students. The gym was a separate building about 30 yards from the end of a hall.

            1. Front door would be unlocked at the beginning of school with an Administrator standing guard at all times. A bell was installed outside for all other times. A secretary would leave the Office and open the door during school hours.
            Well, mornings are busy times for Admin. (we only had two), eventually, "door duty" fell way down the priority list of their morning chores, and
            nearly forgotten.
            We had one secretary and one receptionist. They were leaving their desks 20-40+ times a day to go out and open the door. No Admin. wants a pissed off Office crew. So the door was unlocked with a large sign in the hall requesting visitors to enter the Office for their passes. We also put up one of those movie theater velvet ropes to direct them.
            Different Para-Pro's were assigned to leave their classroom duties and cover the Hall Door to the Gym before, during and 5 minutes after the class changes for kids coming to and from PE. Any students needing into the Build. during class time would bang on the nearest classroom window and student would go out and open the door for them.
            In good weather, the students, naturally so, would go outside during their Lunch Time. In addition to the normal lunch room supervision, another Para-Pro was pulled out of the classroom to sit at the door so students wishing to come in during Lunch could do so.
            (The Sped. Paras were excluded from these duties because of funding requirements) this usually left us with about 3 Paras to perform all door duties. (If they weren't sick, forgot or were just heavily involved in a classroom activity)
            There's more, but this is long enough to make the point.
            By Halloween, the system was mainly being ignored. Unless there were VIPs visiting.
            My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by holly6 View Post
              A bit of combination between you and MM. After Sandy Hook, we underwent all the new safety training meetings. Lots of power points, reams of paper, and stern warnings about "it's a new day"! A list of possible teacher infractions were also included. Any of them would be followed by loss of our first born male child. Of course the focal point was that ALL EXTERIOR DOORS WILL BE LOCKED AT ALL TIMES!...
              Small HS give or take 400 students. The gym was a separate building about 30 yards from the end of a hall.

              1. Front door would be unlocked at the beginning of school with an Administrator standing guard at all times. A bell was installed outside for all other times. A secretary would leave the Office and open the door during school hours.
              Well, mornings are busy times for Admin. (we only had two), eventually, "door duty" fell way down the priority list of their morning chores, and
              nearly forgotten.
              We had one secretary and one receptionist. They were leaving their desks 20-40+ times a day to go out and open the door. No Admin. wants a pissed off Office crew. So the door was unlocked with a large sign in the hall requesting visitors to enter the Office for their passes. We also put up one of those movie theater velvet ropes to direct them.
              Different Para-Pro's were assigned to leave their classroom duties and cover the Hall Door to the Gym before, during and 5 minutes after the class changes for kids coming to and from PE. Any students needing into the Build. during class time would bang on the nearest classroom window and student would go out and open the door for them.
              In good weather, the students, naturally so, would go outside during their Lunch Time. In addition to the normal lunch room supervision, another Para-Pro was pulled out of the classroom to sit at the door so students wishing to come in during Lunch could do so.
              (The Sped. Paras were excluded from these duties because of funding requirements) this usually left us with about 3 Paras to perform all door duties. (If they weren't sick, forgot or were just heavily involved in a classroom activity)
              There's more, but this is long enough to make the point.
              By Halloween, the system was mainly being ignored. Unless there were VIPs visiting.
              Yeah, people get slack quick. Just like if teachers are instructed to carry concealed, they will...for a while. Then its in the briefcase, the car, at home.

              The primary ISD in our area went with biometic gun safes. At least they're there. Exterior security is pretty good I terms of door locks, but there's so much safety glass that its only a modest hope.

              Ironically, if they had the old-time schools I attended that were designed by guys who also designed prisons, security would be a lot easier, but these airy, sunny, cheery new school are wide open.

              And all this security assumes that the shooter comes from outside....
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #8
                AJ brings up something that is one of my pet peeves, open campuses.
                K thru middle school it's a no brainier, the campus is not open, students are there till the last bell rings.
                But what about high school?
                We did not have open campuses when I went to high school. But today I see high school students allowed to go off campus at lunch time, if you are near the parking lot it's like a NASCAR starting line! Every drive in good place is jammed, and then it's a race back to school!
                Besides being a traffic hazard it just seems to make it impossible to ensure security, does it not? It doubles the chances of someone bringing a weapon in,MIT doubles the opertunity for a person with bad intentions to sneak in.
                Makes no sense to me.
                Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                Comment


                • #9
                  Its a DETERRENT, and it works.
                  And it does not have to be as sophisticated as a nuclear launch system.

                  Yes, keeping them in a safe is cumbersome, but its better than nothing.
                  Shooters always avoid points of resistance, they want their moment of glory and are incredibly cowardly about how they go about getting it.

                  I call this a step in the right direction, it might even be the only one that is needed here.
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    Yeah, people get slack quick. Just like if teachers are instructed to carry concealed, they will...for a while. Then its in the briefcase, the car, at home.

                    The primary ISD in our area went with biometic gun safes. At least they're there. Exterior security is pretty good I terms of door locks, but there's so much safety glass that its only a modest hope.

                    Ironically, if they had the old-time schools I attended that were designed by guys who also designed prisons, security would be a lot easier, but these airy, sunny, cheery new school are wide open.

                    And all this security assumes that the shooter comes from outside....
                    Insightful,
                    We've discussed this before. CC for teachers is not my favorite topic. It's a little like driving a car. I'm confident with my abilities, it's the other nuts I'm worried about.
                    For us civilian types, weapon respect usually is a result of a life long introduction of family, some type of professional training and experience. Putting a young woman with a degree in American Literature, through a crash combat course with a tool of which she is scared to death, is not my idea of positive security. The same holds true for the testosterone filled Science teacher.
                    In reality, School safety has two components.
                    1. Bad guy shoots the lock off, kicks open the door and sprays the room. With or without grenades, kiss our collective ass goodbye.
                    2. Gunfire or... an announcement (hardly realistic), gives us a short time to prepare. I taught each class to stack desks high up the door to make it less attractive to the bad guys. (Idiots built a window next to the door) 2 tall windows to the outside were to be opened and as many as possible would go out the windows and run toward the BaseB field.
                    As a sidelight, I've heard of some teachers with minor carpentry skills that would take a drawer out of the press board and veneer desks and create a false back in the drawer with 1/8" veneer and perhaps hide a PPK .380 knockoff with a loose mag or two behind it. Of course, I would be appalled if true, as such an action would be totally illegal.
                    My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                      Its a DETERRENT, and it works.
                      And it does not have to be as sophisticated as a nuclear launch system.

                      Yes, keeping them in a safe is cumbersome, but its better than nothing.
                      Shooters always avoid points of resistance, they want their moment of glory and are incredibly cowardly about how they go about getting it.

                      I call this a step in the right direction, it might even be the only one that is needed here.
                      I have no problem with this program. However no it's not a deterrent at all. You can't deter a person that plans to kill children and then kill themselves.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        I have no problem with this program. However no it's not a deterrent at all. You can't deter a person that plans to kill children and then kill themselves.
                        What basis do you have for saying that?
                        Have any of them won gunfights with amred men or women, or even engaged in them?

                        We have talked here of Mall shooters that have rrun from armed men and shot themselves merely at the sight of a weapon not in their hands.
                        They are very much the same creatures.

                        Or we can follow the Israeli model if terrorists are your worry, where teachers have been armed for decades and managed to avoid blowing themselves apart, somehow.
                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                          I have no problem with this program. However no it's not a deterrent at all. You can't deter a person that plans to kill children and then kill themselves.
                          Very true. These guys are on a one-way mission, and they're completely devoid of fear. All planning has to revolve around the fact that the shooter will be operating under his own agenda and will not be deterred.

                          The key to school security is delay and speed in alerting. Delay the shooter from access to the kids, and get the news out quick to the staff.

                          Sandy Hook was a perfect example: they had a locked door next to safety glass. It didn't keep him out, but it forced him to make noise which alerted the staff.

                          The problem was theirs was an eggshell defense: everything on the outside. Once the shooter was inside the staff had no options.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                            What basis do you have for saying that?
                            Have any of them won gunfights with amred men or women, or even engaged in them?

                            We have talked here of Mall shooters that have rrun from armed men and shot themselves merely at the sight of a weapon not in their hands.
                            They are very much the same creatures.

                            Or we can follow the Israeli model if terrorists are your worry, where teachers have been armed for decades and managed to avoid blowing themselves apart, somehow.
                            You misinterpret the shooters. They go into these situations expecting, in fact planning, on dying, often killing themselves while they still have targets and the capability to engage them.

                            If they avoid the police, which most do (but not all), it is simply because they have a specific plan which they desire to see to completion.

                            They aren't cowards in the sense you're suggesting, rather, they are highly organized and ritualized suicides.

                            You cannot deter them any more than you can frighten them. These are men who have decided to leave life in a specific manner. In most cases these are carefully-planned acts which are a long time developing.
                            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by holly6 View Post
                              Insightful,
                              We've discussed this before. CC for teachers is not my favorite topic. It's a little like driving a car. I'm confident with my abilities, it's the other nuts I'm worried about.
                              For us civilian types, weapon respect usually is a result of a life long introduction of family, some type of professional training and experience. Putting a young woman with a degree in American Literature, through a crash combat course with a tool of which she is scared to death, is not my idea of positive security. The same holds true for the testosterone filled Science teacher.
                              In reality, School safety has two components.
                              1. Bad guy shoots the lock off, kicks open the door and sprays the room. With or without grenades, kiss our collective ass goodbye.
                              2. Gunfire or... an announcement (hardly realistic), gives us a short time to prepare. I taught each class to stack desks high up the door to make it less attractive to the bad guys. (Idiots built a window next to the door) 2 tall windows to the outside were to be opened and as many as possible would go out the windows and run toward the BaseB field.
                              As a sidelight, I've heard of some teachers with minor carpentry skills that would take a drawer out of the press board and veneer desks and create a false back in the drawer with 1/8" veneer and perhaps hide a PPK .380 knockoff with a loose mag or two behind it. Of course, I would be appalled if true, as such an action would be totally illegal.
                              Yeah, I'm not a fan, either, for the same reasons and because of the danger of a disturbed student disarming a teacher and turning a routine classroom disturbance into a bloodbath.

                              With biometic safes access to a firearm for an authorized user is as quick as opening a door and picking it up.

                              You can put a safe in each classroom, and even if only X percent of the teachers are armed, any potential shooter will have to plan upon all being armed or face potential disaster.

                              The surest defense is, as you've noted, to extract the students and staff from the environment.

                              The drawer concept is interesting. And, as you note, appalling.

                              Unless said teacher got caught up in an active shooter incident...
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment

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