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  • SCOTUS Will Hear California Redistricting Case

    If the U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of districts being based on the number of eligible voters not population, it will greatly reduce Latino's political clout in California.


    For 50 years the “one person, one vote” principle has been used to divvy up political power by counting all people in states and putting them into electoral districts of roughly equal size.
    But the mathematics of power may be about to change in a way that could shift political clout away from fast-growing Latino communities in states such as California, Texas and Florida and move it to the suburbs and rural areas.
    The Supreme Court surprised election-law experts Tuesday and said it would hear arguments this fall about whether voting districts should continue to be drawn by using census population data, which include noncitizen immigrants who are in the United States both legally and illegally, or whether the system should be changed to count only citizens who are eligible to vote, as conservative challengers are seeking.

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...ry.html#page=1
    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

  • #2
    Originally posted by Persephone View Post
    If the U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of districts being based on the number of eligible voters not population, it will greatly reduce Latino's political clout in California.
    An interesting take. Our central town in the Yakima Valley has been watching this for several months. Over a year ago, the ACLU filed suit against it on this very point. $1,000,000 in legal costs later, the WA State Supreme Court ruled in the ACLU's favor. Then the WSSC with the ACLU's help, redrew the City Council boundaries for the area.
    The town votes heavily Republican. The new districts will be decided on registered voters within the districts. One district may have 100 voters, others may represent a few thousand. Needless to say, the Community Activists have thrown their hats into the ring. The business leaders in the minority districts are more focused on their enterprises than running for Office. If SCOTUS rules against the issue, it will result with in a major increase in minority political power in this small town.

    As an aside, though the ACLU works on pro-bono basis, they presented the city with a $2,800,000 legal bill.
    c
    My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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    • #3
      Now, back in the colonial days, men who wanted to vote needed to get a stake in America (own land), in order to vote.
      "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

      "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Persephone View Post
        Now, back in the colonial days, men who wanted to vote needed to get a stake in America (own land), in order to vote.
        It's how our democratic concept evolved. Land taxes=representation. After the fact, merchants and smiths, who rented their property began to spread.
        Eventually, it became Free, White, and 21.
        My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by holly6 View Post
          An interesting take. Our central town in the Yakima Valley has been watching this for several months. Over a year ago, the ACLU filed suit against it on this very point. $1,000,000 in legal costs later, the WA State Supreme Court ruled in the ACLU's favor. Then the WSSC with the ACLU's help, redrew the City Council boundaries for the area.
          The town votes heavily Republican. The new districts will be decided on registered voters within the districts. One district may have 100 voters, others may represent a few thousand. Needless to say, the Community Activists have thrown their hats into the ring. The business leaders in the minority districts are more focused on their enterprises than running for Office. If SCOTUS rules against the issue, it will result with in a major increase in minority political power in this small town.

          As an aside, though the ACLU works on pro-bono basis, they presented the city with a $2,800,000 legal bill.
          c
          You obviously have no experience with the American Criminal Lovers Union - they only appear to "work pro bono" on behalf of criminals, NEVER on behalf of taxpaying citizens, and they always get paid by somebody, almost always the law-abiding tax payers.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #6
            I don’t quite understand how that will happen. Before the American Civil War, did not slaves count as 3/5 of a person for population counts for representation in congress and of course they could not vote? For the traditionalists among us, I don’t see how changing the districts to eligible voter counts would work. All unregistered voters would be denied representation. Or all citizens who are unregistered would be denied representation. Should we stop the US census which is used to determine population counts to be used to decide how many representatives a state has?

            Can the number of representatives in a state be based on population count and the districts decided on the number of eligible voters? This does not seem right.

            If the number of representatives in a state would be determined by the number of registered voters in a state: in that event, the states might push for voter registration drives to get more people to register.

            Could be some interesting arguments in this one.
            Homo homini lupus

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Persephone View Post
              Now, back in the colonial days, men who wanted to vote needed to get a stake in America (own land), in order to vote.
              How it should work.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                I don’t quite understand how that will happen. Before the American Civil War, did not slaves count as 3/5 of a person for population counts for representation in congress and of course they could not vote? For the traditionalists among us, I don’t see how changing the districts to eligible voter counts would work. All unregistered voters would be denied representation. Or all citizens who are unregistered would be denied representation.
                Should we stop the US census which is used to determine population counts to be used to decide how many representatives a state has?

                Can the number of representatives in a state be based on population count and the districts decided on the number of eligible voters? This does not seem right.

                If the number of representatives in a state would be determined by the number of registered voters in a state: in that event, the states might push for voter registration drives to get more people to register.

                Could be some interesting arguments in this one.
                Jannie,
                I agree with you in most places. This all seems to be a breeding ground for the 'law of unintended consequences".
                A small point, would you agree that the groups I put in bold would be unrepresented only if they choose to join that group by not registering?

                As per your last paragraph, some programs are already in place. WA State has a "Motor Voter" Law. Get or renew your DL and they will register you to vote.
                My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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                • #9
                  All citizens of the U.S. are eligible to vote (with the exception of certain criminals) therefore there should be no problem with the districts or census.

                  However non-citizens (tourist, students, essential works, illegals etc.) should not count for voting districts or census figures.
                  Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                    All citizens of the U.S. are eligible to vote (with the exception of certain criminals) therefore there should be no problem with the districts or census.

                    However non-citizens (tourist, students, essential works, illegals etc.) should not count for voting districts or census figures.
                    Really? My 15 year old son, a citizen, is eligible to vote???? Don't think so.
                    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                    “To talk of many things:
                    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                    Of cabbages—and kings—
                    And why the sea is boiling hot—
                    And whether pigs have wings.”
                    ― Lewis Carroll

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                      Really? My 15 year old son, a citizen, is eligible to vote???? Don't think so.


                      Forgive me I keep forgetting that I am dealing with anal @$$holes. Every U.S. citizen over 18 with the afore mentioned restrictions is allowed to vote. Happy now.
                      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tsar View Post

                        Forgive me I keep forgetting that I am dealing with anal @$$holes. Every U.S. citizen over 18 with the afore mentioned restrictions is allowed to vote. Happy now.
                        Which is one of the points of the lawsuit... Using Census figures instead of basing it on eligible voters... Nothing to do with me being happy, you're missing the key component of the case going to the court.

                        So anal ******* that understands the basic concepts going to the court or... just clueless. I'll take *******.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by holly6 View Post
                          Jannie,
                          I agree with you in most places. This all seems to be a breeding ground for the 'law of unintended consequences".
                          A small point, would you agree that the groups I put in bold would be unrepresented only if they choose to join that group by not registering?

                          As per your last paragraph, some programs are already in place. WA State has a "Motor Voter" Law. Get or renew your DL and they will register you to vote.
                          If the principle is “No taxation without representation” which was one of the tenets of the American Revolution, then everyone residing in the US should be allowed to vote, because we are all taxed in some fashion. The most common form of tax is a sales tax so that everyone who buys something here pays a tax.

                          However, I do agree that those who are not citizens should be excluded from voting and I think most non-citizens do not vote.

                          My own daughter-in-law is a green card resident of the US. She does not vote and cannot serve on juries, etc. However, she does pay taxes (a lot) and has had to go to the town board to complain about her and my son's real estate taxes and to present evidence as to why they should be lower. Her children, natural born citizens, my grandchildren, are going to be able to vote within the next three years, (one will be able to vote in the next presidential election). In all probability they will reflect her opinions when they do. And actually, you conservatives don’t want to lose those votes. They are a very conservative family. Be careful what you wish for—you could offend a potential conservative voter base and turn them into liberals and Independents in some form.

                          I don’t believe that many ineligible people vote. The actual case should be about how to draw district lines in a fair and equitable manner to more evenly distribute voters in either party.

                          We all know that this issue is really a way to fiddle the districts so that they will be more favorable to a particular political party because they are being demographically limited.
                          Homo homini lupus

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                          • #14
                            As this image from FiveThirtyEight shows, this ruling in favour of Republicans would largely favour states with Native-Born, Older White People.

                            ´
                            “You need to help people. I know it's not very Republican to say but you need to help people.” DONALD TRUMP, 2016

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                              I don’t quite understand how that will happen. Before the American Civil War, did not slaves count as 3/5 of a person for population counts for representation in congress and of course they could not vote? For the traditionalists among us, I don’t see how changing the districts to eligible voter counts would work. All unregistered voters would be denied representation. Or all citizens who are unregistered would be denied representation. Should we stop the US census which is used to determine population counts to be used to decide how many representatives a state has?

                              Can the number of representatives in a state be based on population count and the districts decided on the number of eligible voters? This does not seem right.

                              If the number of representatives in a state would be determined by the number of registered voters in a state: in that event, the states might push for voter registration drives to get more people to register.

                              Could be some interesting arguments in this one.
                              You have raised some interesting points. We'll see if there are any good answers out there. For example, the Electoral College method of electing presidents already disenfranchises a major portion of the population because it only counts the majority votes from any state and discards all of the rest. Is it any different under these redistricting schemes? I don't know.

                              Gerrymandering (named after the politician who first came up with this kind of thing) has always been considered an illegal method of redistricting in the past, but got done a lot anyway.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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