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  • Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    I think you need some perspective on just how dramatically humans have transformed the planet.
    • 98 percent by weight of vertebrate life on the planets land surface is humans and domesticated animals.
    • 40 percent of land area is used for agriculture.
    • Evenly distributed the human population is 137 people per square mile.
    • In 2014 co2 emissions from human sources were 39 billion tonnes. By comparison volcanoes emit 65 to 319 million tonnes of CO2 per year.
    • Only 10 percent of all large fish—both open ocean species including tuna, swordfish, marlin and the large groundfish such as cod, halibut, skates and flounder—are left in the seas.
    • Fresh water is becoming increasingly scarce and demand is likely to increase. While there is no way to translate the problem into numbers directly the average US citizen uses 457,018 gallons per year. A subsistence farmer in much of the world may use as little as 3000 gallons a year per person. 40 percent of the worlds population is at risk of severe water shortages.


    Whatever your position on AGW is it is safe to say most people are in denial concerning human impact on the planet.
    98% of Fauna isn't vertabrate, human, or domestic animals ...

    Given 7+ Billion Humans on Earth, pity only 40% o fland area is used for agriculture ...

    137 per square mile, ??? you got a source for that? Got a real grasp on how that works out?

    So volcanos (Nature) emits two to ten times as much [email protected] as human activity yet human activity~emissions is the lynch pin to "Climate Chance/Gorebol Warming" ???

    10% of these claimed "ocean fish species" from what time frame in reference??? Whose census numbers back then, or now?! What is the context, aside from your questionable accuracy ....

    Fresh water access numbers relate to CO2 in the atmosphere HOW ??? ...
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
      ...

      Scary stuff... because some people are uneducated enough to believe it.
      You have just described the vast majority of ACC/AGW gorebots. Scientific idiots whom haven't a clue between a muon and a moron.

      Insult to injury ... they are allowed to vote!
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

      Comment


      • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
        You have just described the vast majority of ACC/AGW gorebots. Scientific idiots whom haven't a clue between a muon and a moron.

        Insult to injury ... they are allowed to vote!
        What should you expect when many of those who are so into AGW are Liberal Arts and Fine Arts majors and have avoided all contact with subjects like math, science, and the like that they possibly could...

        I remember in college taking freshman astronomy as an elective because I thought it'd be fun and for me an easy A. The section I was in had like 50 to 70 people in it, all Liberal and Fine Arts majors who were dreading the class as their "hard" (difficult) science class.
        The prof figured out pretty quick that I was there just for the easy A and shanghaied me into being an extra TA... Something like "You'll get the A but you have to help tutor the other students..."

        I think the funniest moments were:

        We got an assignment to determine the age of the Earth from the half life of Uranium. Nothing special there... But, I come to class and I'm the only one that did that problem! Seems the half life of Uranium wasn't in the textbook...
        The prof asked how I did it. I pulled out my nuke school chart of the nuclides and said "Chart of the Nuclides..." It seemed obvious to me...
        But, I was struck that not one other student in that class had the brains to look somewhere else for that number...

        Another one (the Prof was big on debunking pseudo-science and such) was, one of the women in the class was hell bent on the Bermuda Triangle being "real." He made me relate a story about the loss of an A-7 off San Diego when I was aboard the Enterprise. I don't think it changed her mind...

        I came away from that class with a new, much lower, respect for Liberal Arts and Fine Arts majors when it came to anything requiring math or science. After that I've always assumed such people are scientific and mathematical illiterates until proven otherwise. Most of the time a proof otherwise is never coming.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
          I think you need some perspective on just how dramatically humans have transformed the planet.
          • [...]
          • In 2014 co2 emissions from human sources were 39 billion tonnes. By comparison volcanoes emit 65 to 319 million tonnes of CO2 per year.
          • [...]


          [...]
          I'll get to the rest later...



          The diagram is enumerated in gigatonnes of carbon (GtC), rather than CO2. Most scientific publications use GtC. Political hacks use CO2 because it's a bigger number; some will use it interchangeably with C.

          Human carbon emissions are far lower than the annual variability of natural carbon emissions. Our contributions are less than the margin of error in estimating natural sources in the global carbon budget.

          Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have been far higher in the recent geologic past...



          The “Anthropocene” doesn’t look a heck of a lot different than the prior 25 million years… Apart from being a lot colder.

          The “Anthropocene’s” CO2 “Hockey Stick” looks more like a needle in a haystack from a geological perspective.



          In the following bar chart I grouped CO2 by geologic period. The Cambrian through Cretaceous are drawn from Berner and Kothavala, 2001 (GEOCARB), the Tertiary is from Pagani, et al. 2006 (deep sea sediment cores), the Pleistocene is from Lüthi, et al. 2008 (EPICA C Antarctic ice core), the “Anthropocene” is from NOAA-ESRL (Mauna Loa Observatory) and the CO2 starvation is from Ward et al., 2005.



          “Anthropocene” CO2 levels are a lot closer to the C3 plant starvation (Ward et al., 2005) range than they are to most of the prior 540 million years.

          http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/0...cord-breaking/
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

          Comment


          • I will see your graph and raise you one



            Honestly reverting back to the war of the graphs is not getting us anywhere.

            I think everyone understands that co2 levels are not the issue but the rate of change is. To see that you need higher resolution than you can see on a graph spanning millions of years.

            In anycase I thought we were focusing on the politics of global warming as the science debate has been covered in other threads?
            We hunt the hunters

            Comment


            • Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
              I will see your graph and raise you one

              [IM...Hockey Stick...MG]

              Honestly reverting back to the war of the graphs is not getting us anywhere.

              I think everyone understands that co2 levels are not the issue but the rate of change is. To see that you need higher resolution than you can see on a graph spanning millions of years.

              In anycase I thought we were focusing on the politics of global warming as the science debate has been covered in other threads?
              The graph you posted is a "Hockey stick." It violates basic signal theory by splicing a high resolution signal onto a low resolution signal. The continued propagation of such graphs by Gorebots can only be the result of ignorance of basic signal theory or fraud. The ice cores are not direct measurements of historical atmospheric CO2. The samples from the ice core bubbles are used to reconstruct past CO2 levels. The trapped gasses represent long-term averages of atmospheric CO2.



              Law Dome DE08 Ice Core: Reconstruction of 1969 AD depositional layer. Modified after Fischer, H. A Short Primer on Ice Core Science. Climate and Environmental Physics, Physics Institute, University of Bern.


              The highest resolution Antarctic ice core is the DE08 core from Law Dome. The IPCC and so-called scientific consensus assume that it can resolve annual changes in CO2. But it can’t. Each CO2 value represents a roughly 30-yr average and not an annual value.

              If you smooth the Mauna Loa instrumental record (red curve) and plant stomata-derived pre-instrumental CO2 (green curve) with a 30-yr filter, they tie into the Law Dome DE08 ice core (light blue curve) quite nicely…



              The deeper DSS core (dark blue curve)has a much lower temporal resolution due to its much lower accumulation rate and compaction effects. It is totally useless in resolving century scale shifts, much less decadal shifts.

              The IPCC and so-called scientific consensus correctly assume that resolution is dictated by the bubble enclosure period. However, they are incorrect in limiting the bubble enclosure period to the sealing zone. In the case of the core DE08 they assume that they are looking at a signal with a 1 cycle/1 yr frequency, sampled once every 8-10 years. The actual signal has a 1 cycle/30-40 yr frequency, sampled once every 8-10 years.

              30-40 ppmv shifts in CO2 over periods less than ~60 years cannot be accurately resolved in the DE08 core. That’s dictated by basic signal theory.


              The reason to incorporate stomata and ice core data into CO2 chronologies is the fact that the stomata data have higher frequency resolution than the ice core data. Van Hoof et al., 2005 demonstrated that the application of a low pass filter to a stomata chronology yields a strong match to a contemporaneous ice core chronology...




              Van Hoof et al., 2005. Atmospheric CO2 during the 13th century AD: reconciliation of data from ice core measurements and stomatal frequency analysis. Tellus (2005), 57B, 351–355.



              ]

              The modern rise in atmospheric CO2 is barely anomalous according to every measure not derived from Antarctic ice cores. Only Antarctic ice cores show this rise to be anomalous. Greenland ice cores and plant stomata demonstrate that modern CO2 levels are barely anomalous.Fossil plant stomata data conclusively demonstrate that atmospheric CO2 levels have routinely been 300-350 ppmv and occasionally higher throughout the Holocene. (Older is to the left).



              Wagner et al., 1999. Century-Scale Shifts in Early Holocene Atmospheric CO2 Concentration. Science 18 June 1999: Vol. 284 no. 5422 pp. 1971-1973…
              In contrast to conventional ice core estimates of 270 to 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), the stomatal frequency signal suggests that early Holocene carbon dioxide concentrations were well above 300 ppmv.

              […]

              Most of the Holocene ice core records from Antarctica do not have adequate temporal resolution.

              […]

              Our results falsify the concept of relatively stabilized Holocene CO2 concentrations of 270 to 280 ppmv until the industrial revolution. SI-based CO2 reconstructions may even suggest that, during the early Holocene, atmospheric CO2 concentrations that were .300 ppmv could have been the rule rather than the exception.

              Wagner et al., 2004. Reproducibility of Holocene atmospheric CO2 records based on stomatal frequency. Quaternary Science Reviews. 23 (2004) 1947–1954…
              The majority of the stomatal frequency-based estimates of CO 2 for the Holocene do not support the widely accepted concept of comparably stable CO2 concentrations throughout the past 11,500 years. To address the critique that these stomatal frequency variations result from local environmental change or methodological insufficiencies, multiple stomatal frequency records were compared for three climatic key periods during the Holocene, namely the Preboreal oscillation, the 8.2 kyr cooling event and the Little Ice Age. The highly comparable fluctuations in the paleo-atmospheric CO2 records, which were obtained from different continents and plant species (deciduous angiosperms as well as conifers) using varying calibration approaches, provide strong evidence for the integrity of leaf-based CO2 quantification.

              Van Hoof et al., 2005. Atmospheric CO2 during the 13th century AD: reconciliation of data from ice core measurements and stomatal frequency analysis. Tellus 57B (2005), 4…
              Atmospheric CO2 reconstructions are currently available from direct measurements of air enclosures in Antarctic ice and, alternatively, from stomatal frequency analysis performed on fossil leaves. A period where both methods consistently provide evidence for natural CO2 changes is during the 13th century AD. The results of the two independent methods differ significantly in the amplitude of the estimated CO2 changes (10 ppmv ice versus 34 ppmv stomatal frequency). Here, we compare the stomatal frequency and ice core results by using a firn diffusion model in order to assess the potential influence of smoothing during enclosure on the temporal resolution as well as the amplitude of the CO2 changes. The seemingly large discrepancies between the amplitudes estimated by the contrasting methods diminish when the raw stomatal data are smoothed in an analogous way to the natural smoothing which occurs in the firn.

              The plant stomata data clearly show that preindustrial atmospheric CO2 levels were much higher and far more variable than indicated by Antarctic ice cores. Which means that the rise in atmospheric CO2 since the 1800′s is not particularly anomalous and at least half of it is due to oceanic and biosphere responses to the warm-up from the Little Ice Age. (Older is to the left).



              From 1751-1875, atmospheric CO2 rose at ten time the rate of anthropogenic emissions. This CO2 was out-gassed from warming oceans.



              Atmospheric CO2 actually stopped rising and possibly declined from 1940-1955, despite rising emissions, because cooling oceans were absorbing the CO2.



              The ice core resolution problem was highlighted very well in this paper...
              The stabilization of atmospheric CO2 concentration during the 1940s and 1950s is a notable feature in the ice core record. The new high density measurements confirm this result and show that CO2 concentrations stabilized at 310– 312 ppm from 1940–1955. The CH4 and N2O growth rates also decreased during this period, although the N2O variation is comparable to the measurement uncertainty. Smoothing due to enclosure of air in the ice (about 10 years at DE08) removes high frequency variations from the record, so the true atmospheric variation may have been larger than represented in the ice core air record. Even a decrease in the atmospheric CO2 concentration during the mid-1940s is consistent with the Law Dome record and the air enclosure smoothing, suggesting a large additional sink of 3.0 PgC yr 1 [Trudinger et al., 2002a]. The d13CO2 record during this time suggests that this additional sink was mostly oceanic and not caused by lower fossil emissions or the terrestrial biosphere [Etheridge et al., 1996; Trudinger et al., 2002a]. The processes that could cause this response are still unknown.

              MacFarling Meure, C., D. Etheridge, C. Trudinger, P. Steele, R. Langenfelds, T. van Ommen, A. Smith, and J. Elkins. 2006. The Law Dome CO2, CH4 and N2O Ice Core Records Extended to 2000 years BP. Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 33, No. 14, L14810 10.1029/2006GL026152.

              CO2 levels could have declined during the mid-20th century cooling and the DE-08 core would not have resolved it.

              Anthropogenic emissions did not "catch up" to the rise in atmospheric CO2 until 1960.



              Atmospheric CO2 was on track to reach 320-345 ppmv by the early 21st century before athropogenic emissions became significant...



              CO2 chronologies constructed from plant stomata indicate that Holocene CO2 levels have routinely reached 320-360 ppmv in response to multi-decadal and millennial scale natural warming cycles.

              CO2 is not hazardous to human health health below 5000 ppmv. C3 plants suffer from carbon starvation at less than 200 ppnv CO2. CO2 has risen from ~280 ppmv to ~400 ppmv since the mid-1800's.

              Late Pleistocene glacial stages routinely experienced CO2 starvation and the modern levels are barely elevated.The entire instrumental record (Mauna Loa Observatory) doesn't even break out of the Cenozoic noise level. (Older is to the left).



              CO2 levels have been cycling downward for half-a-billion years. (Older is to the right).



              Modern CO2 levels are almost indistinguishable from the carbon starvation levels of the Pleistocene glacial stages. (Older is generally to the right).

              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

              Comment


              • Interesting article here on how Europe's climate policies to reduce coal use have more trees being cut down in the USA to make wood pellets, that put more carbon in the atmosphere than burning coal.
                http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how...-us/ar-BBkxYot
                TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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