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  • #31
    Originally posted by Paul Mann III View Post
    That's pretty much the slogan at FOX News - You're poor because you are stupid and you don't try hard enough.
    It isn't FOX News that I figured that out from, it's observation over a lifetime. You can see it in schools too.

    For example (I read about this years ago but can't find an on-line version right off) there was a rich businessman in Philadelphia who "adopted" the 5th grade class of an inner city school; 119 students if I recall correctly.
    He made this deal with them and their parents (mostly poor minorities). If the kids stayed out of gangs, trouble, and drugs, that sort of thing they had a free ride for education. He'd pay for everything. If they could get into Harvard it was all paid for and free for them.

    The class became a study in failure. The children were tracked to adulthood and the class statistically did no better than any other inner city school class in terms of outcomes. The money made zero difference statistically.

    When it comes to the poor, statistically, dumb and lazy are not uncommon things. Those who are poor but smart or energetic won't be poor long. They may not become rich but they won't stay poor either.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      It isn't FOX News that I figured that out from, it's observation over a lifetime. You can see it in schools too.

      For example (I read about this years ago but can't find an on-line version right off) there was a rich businessman in Philadelphia who "adopted" the 5th grade class of an inner city school; 119 students if I recall correctly.
      He made this deal with them and their parents (mostly poor minorities). If the kids stayed out of gangs, trouble, and drugs, that sort of thing they had a free ride for education. He'd pay for everything. If they could get into Harvard it was all paid for and free for them.

      The class became a study in failure. The children were tracked to adulthood and the class statistically did no better than any other inner city school class in terms of outcomes. The money made zero difference statistically.

      When it comes to the poor, statistically, dumb and lazy are not uncommon things. Those who are poor but smart or energetic won't be poor long. They may not become rich but they won't stay poor either.
      Seems like somebody from around here just told me that anecdotes are not evidence...

      Besides, there are tons of lazy, stupid rich people.
      "This life..., you know, "the life." You’re not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you don’t shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

      BoRG

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Paul Mann III View Post
        Seems like somebody from around here just told me that anecdotes are not evidence...

        Besides, there are tons of lazy, stupid rich people.
        It isn't an anecdote. It is a well founded study. I explained that I simply can't find a copy of it at the moment.

        And yes, there are lazy, stupid rich people. Most don't stay that way long either. But, so long as they are being lazy and stupid on their own dime I have no problem with that.
        The problem begins when the government steps in and starts handing out OPM (Other People's Money and pronounced "opium") to the poor without much if any determination of whether they deserve it other than for being poor.

        Found a thread on another board with links that shows the study.

        http://forums.officer.com/t151474/

        Here's the results:

        http://www.philly.com/inquirer/educa...earsLater.html
        Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 16 May 15, 17:37.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
          MSNBC then, eh?
          Of you won't name it, then you make everyone wonder what you are hiding as you attack and attack and attack and attack and attack the one and only major Cable news channel that isn't owned and operated by Democrats.



          Where, exactly?


          BTW, something from someone the Terrorists tried to kill over this very issue.
          (don't freak out again, guys, its CNN)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrRINFCCoek
          I didn't name my source because source would be plural. As in "sources." I know that's hard for you to comprehend but it is possible to get your news from more than one source. You and others ought to try it sometime. You'll be surprised how much you learn.
          Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            It isn't an anecdote. It is a well founded study. I explained that I simply can't find a copy of it at the moment.

            And yes, there are lazy, stupid rich people. Most don't stay that way long either. But, so long as they are being lazy and stupid on their own dime I have no problem with that.
            The problem begins when the government steps in and starts handing out OPM (Other People's Money and pronounced "opium") to the poor without much if any determination of whether they deserve it other than for being poor.

            Found a thread on another board with links that shows the study.

            http://forums.officer.com/t151474/

            Here's the results:

            http://www.philly.com/inquirer/educa...earsLater.html
            Kind of ignoring all the corporate welfare that the rich take advantage of, eh?

            And also ignoring the systematic oppression of the system that keeps the rich getting richer while the poor can't get into a decent school to pull themselves up. Doesn't matter how hard you try when the rich are pushing down on you.

            The rich do everything possible to stay rich while keeping the rest of us out of the money pile. And when the poor do break through, guess what color most of them are?

            Thank God for Dr. Dre. Rich white people are afraid because he creates rich black people.
            "This life..., you know, "the life." You’re not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you don’t shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

            BoRG

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Paul Mann III View Post
              Kind of ignoring all the corporate welfare that the rich take advantage of, eh?

              And also ignoring the systematic oppression of the system that keeps the rich getting richer while the poor can't get into a decent school to pull themselves up. Doesn't matter how hard you try when the rich are pushing down on you.

              The rich do everything possible to stay rich while keeping the rest of us out of the money pile. And when the poor do break through, guess what color most of them are?

              Thank God for Dr. Dre. Rich white people are afraid because he creates rich black people.
              Corporate "Welfare" comes in several forms. The most egregious are bailouts, handouts, and other forms of what are essentially welfare to prop up some Big Business. That should end.

              Another is government grants and programs to do research, development, or the like for some particular reason. While much of this can often be seen as frivolous, I have a harder time saying it is wrong or unnecessary. At least the government is paying for something the government needs that private industry might not or will not do themselves.

              As for the rich wanting to stay rich...

              There are really two kinds of rich people: Those mostly on paper who generally worked had for their money and where they are and then what I'd call "the filthy rich."
              The later are people that have enough money they will be rich almost no matter what.

              The big problem I have with that whole scheme of things is that government often makes complex rules that the rich and particularly the filthy rich can use to their benefit. The poor and working person can't take advantage of such rules simply because they don't make enough money to do so.

              As for the rich getting richer... The more government you have the more likely that is the case. Be it government taxation, regulation, laws, or whatever, all that costs huge money to get past and only the rich can manage that.
              When you as a start up business want to hire an employee you are currently looking at about $11,000 a year in just regulatory compliance and taxes government has foisted on business to comply with. Some little business guy can't often afford that.

              That is government oppression, the most common type of oppression on a mass scale I might add. There, "the rich" are not the ones causing the problem, government is.

              Look for example at Obamacare. Let's say you have a job and are trying hard to save some cash to get ahead. One thing you might do if young is forego health insurance. You take a chance on having good health.
              But NO! Obamacare comes along and makes you spend several hundred dollars a month on health insurance you aren't using wiping out your savings. That's government keeping you down. After all, government will tell you, it's for your own good...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Hmmm...interesting viewpoint. Any solid evidence in support of that theory, given that a) Obama is a highly incompetent and corrupt president who intensely dislikes and cannot tolerate the harsh glare of criticism and scrutiny of his actions, and b) FOX is his only major watchdog amongst the media?



                The situation is akin to a criminal who blames the police for his arrest rather than his own actions.
                No the situation is exactly like a major new organization whining about a supposed infringement on their freedom expression arising from someone else is exercising that very right.

                That is the issue in this thread. Not Obama's entire presidency. But we can agree that Faux's editorial policy is first and foremost that of self-styled "watchdog" rather than accuracy or balance.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                  I didn't name my source because source would be plural. As in "sources." I know that's hard for you to comprehend but it is possible to get your news from more than one source. You and others ought to try it sometime. You'll be surprised how much you learn.
                  Why would that be "hard for you to comprehend"?
                  Are you making a personal attack re; my intelligence, or you think that everyone that has seen just a moment of Fox will be forever brainwashed and incapable of saying or thinking anything that could be called Free Will.... Alien mind-controlling magic perhaps?


                  Oh, BTW, I have not watched Fox myself in over 2 years, aside from little bits on Youtube. The only show on that network that I have watched in full recently is this one;

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XWsJtQZYGI

                  I suggest you give it a try, if you can ever unwind enough to defy herr Oberst Obama's sacred anti free-speech mantras.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    “[W]e’re going to have to change how our body politic thinks, which means we’re going to have to change how the media reports on these issues,” he said.

                    Getting back to the OP, 'emperor' Barry sure sounds like he's after another way around the First Amendment. If the/any media isn't free to report what and how it sees events and news, but must follow Guv'mint "guidelines" we haven't a Free Press anymore.

                    You ‘Must be Made’ to Obey
                    EXCERPT:
                    ...
                    Other “progressive” doublespeak includes words like “invest” (meaning socialist redistribution of wealth), “tolerance” (meaning embrace immorality or face total ruin), “diversity” (meaning Christians and conservatives need not apply), “hate” (meaning truth) or “The Affordable Care Act” (meaning unaffordable, unsustainable and utterly inferior socialized medicine).

                    Even so, it’s during those rare moments of candor that our cultural Marxist friends’ rhetoric actually aligns with their intended actions. In other words, every so often, and usually by accident, they tell the truth.

                    Take this recent declaration by President Obama at Georgetown University. He was discussing his contempt for conservative new media in general and Fox News in particular:

                    “[W]e’re going to have to change how our body politic thinks, which means we’re going to have to change how the media reports on these issues,” he said.

                    How Kim Jong-un of him. In sum: Goal 1) Control thought by, Goal 2) Controlling the media.

                    This is an idea older than – and as well preserved as – Vladimir Lenin himself. How Dear Leader intends to reconcile his scheme to “change how the media reports on these issues” with the First Amendment’s Free Press Clause, namely, “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom … of the press,” is abundantly clear.

                    He doesn’t.

                    Our emperor-in-chief will force feed his once-free subjects yet another unconstitutional executive decree – a Net Neutrality sandwich with a side of Fairness Doctrine.
                    ...
                    http://townhall.com/columnists/mattb...draft-n1999950
                    Also from;
                    http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2015/.../?subscriber=1
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                    Present Current Events are the Future's History

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      It is delusional to not acknowledgement the obvious evidence that if human beings have any free will at all, it is highly restricted.

                      There is by definition limited room at the top. That must be and will always be.

                      When overall wealth and good paying jobs leave the economy, all the hard work and "can do" attitude in the world doesn't change that.

                      But of course no one addresses poverty better than Faux

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Jon Stewart as an example of "fair and balanced"

                        OP is about the 1st Amendment, not poverty. More specifically POTUS desire to see it strangled by Fed control of what is said and how in order to change how we "think" politically.

                        Get a clue comrade putz.

                        (BTW, ever read and understand "1984" or "Animal Farm"?)
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                        Present Current Events are the Future's History

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
                          It is delusional to not acknowledgement the obvious evidence that if human beings have any free will at all, it is highly restricted.

                          There is by definition limited room at the top. That must be and will always be.

                          When overall wealth and good paying jobs leave the economy, all the hard work and "can do" attitude in the world doesn't change that.
                          You sound like Emtos now.
                          Which is, to say, absolutely disgusting.

                          1- While you are playing God, would you mind telling us how you can Pidgon-Hole the spirit of every Human Being on Earth? Highly limited... according to what measure, that of Nietzsche?

                          2- then the power of those at the top much be limited, or our lives don't matter.
                          Yes, I know you think they don't, but that's your damage.

                          3- "Leave", or are forced out by people who are frightened of all those free and prosperous people, and need to eliminate them in order to reduce Humanity to the kind of desperate animals you can comprehend?

                          Words alone can never express my hatred of anyone or anything that can view people the way you do, but I will try-
                          If people like you really are the majority here on Earth, then I must quote the character Chef from Apocalypse Now; "I used to be afraid that if I died in an evil place, my soul wouldn't make it to Heaven. But now... man, I don't care where it goes just as long as it ain't here!"

                          A world where people can hold that which is best in other people in such contempt, and be applauded for it by the majority, is a world that might as well have its apocalypse, NOW.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Paul Mann III View Post
                            That's pretty much the slogan at FOX News - You're poor because you are stupid and you don't try hard enough.
                            I wonder why poor people love to thump a person one step below in the nuts...they just expose themselves.

                            The #1 hater of poor people ever in this forum admitted they were going full time on the take at 72. Wonder if he made it.
                            Last edited by Crash; 19 May 15, 22:21.
                            #occupyarmchairgeneral.
                            Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
                            Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                              You sound like Emtos now.
                              Which is, to say, absolutely disgusting.

                              1- While you are playing God, would you mind telling us how you can Pidgon-Hole the spirit of every Human Being on Earth? Highly limited... according to what measure, that of Nietzsche?


                              .
                              Not playing God at all. In fact, setting aside non-rational entirely faith based notions of God and or a "soul" with the attached notions of "Divine Justice" and "Judgment", observation makes it clear that the sum total of biology, experience and circumstances sharply limits real or imagined choices.

                              2- then the power of those at the top much be limited, or our lives don't matter.
                              Yes, I know you think they don't, but that's your damage.
                              Don't know what you are trying to say here. My point was about about the line between have and have nots in an unrestrained capitalist system being necessarily at least partially, though not entirely, arbitrary and ever changing.

                              3- "Leave", or are forced out by people who are frightened of all those free and prosperous people, and need to eliminate them in order to reduce Humanity to the kind of desperate animals you can comprehend?
                              I was referencing the export of well paying manufacturing jobs. I have no idea what you are talking about


                              Words alone can never express my hatred of anyone or anything that can view people the way you do, but I will try-
                              If people like you really are the majority here on Earth, then I must quote the character Chef from Apocalypse Now; "I used to be afraid that if I died in an evil place, my soul wouldn't make it to Heaven. But now... man, I don't care where it goes just as long as it ain't here!"
                              Truth hurts but stupidity like this is just embarrassingly silly. You don't have a clue what I think but it sounds like the demons you are fighting with in your head are winning the argument.

                              Were you stoned when you watched Apocalypse Now?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Just a comment about the plight of poor people in the US: I know from first-hand experience that there are indeed people who are capable, hard-working and willing to work who end up unemployed because of corporate greed. The wholesale loss of manufacturing jobs that have been sent overseas is a huge factor that not only limits opportunities for poor people but also is killing off the middle class. At the same time, one of the things that Americans have always held dear is the idea that opportunity is there for those that want to work for it, and that have some form of talent. We've grown up hearing the phrase 'only in America' meaning that here we have the types of opportunities that they don't have elsewhere, and we're supposed to have government that allows us to pursue opportunity and gain the riches and position we desire. There are certainly a lot of poor people who will be poor no matter what opportunity they're offered...some people are just not built to have a lot of success. They lack talent, drive, maybe a bit of luck. There are also people who are poor because they started off in careers that at one time had a future, which through no fault of their own has disappeared. People who started off building cars, for example, may have been very good, dedicated workers who spent years learning every part of the assembly line but once the company moved the line to Mexico what good did that do them? Are they poor because they're too stupid or lazy to not be poor? Poor people can't be just lumped together as if it's a genetic or physical characteristic...there's all kinds of poor people and not all of them have a choice.
                                As far as Obama trying to change the way the media reports things...he's full of crap again and I still can't believe you people voted for him a second time. Whoever said the idiotic statement that he was just exercising his first amendment rights, just as Fox News says they want to do, is not smart enough to post here obviously. He's the president, God help us, and as such he can't just make sweeping statements just to exercise his right to free speech. He doesn't have the luxury of just saying what he thinks (or in Obama's case, doesn't think). When the president says something it's policy or politics, not just some news guy talking for the sake of filling an hour. Fox News can say 'Obama sucks' and they are exercising their right to free speech...Obama saying 'we need to change the way they report the news' is a statement of policy coming from the head of the federal government. Not the same thing.

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