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Would the US have been better off if Kerry was elected President in 2004?

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  • #31
    The key screw up of the Bush administration was Iraq. The initial decision was for intervention was poor but at least I see the basis for a debate. But what was disastrous and inexcusable every other decision associated with the invasion and the fall out continues. Too late for Kerry to have much impact on that.

    The 2008 financial crisis would have happened anyways for the same reasons it will probably happen again. Nothing is really changed nor is it likely to change

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    • #32
      Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
      The key screw up of the Bush administration was Iraq. The initial decision was for intervention was poor but at least I see the basis for a debate. But what was disastrous and inexcusable every other decision associated with the invasion and the fall out continues. Too late for Kerry to have much impact on that.

      The 2008 financial crisis would have happened anyways for the same reasons it will probably happen again. Nothing is really changed nor is it likely to change
      Pretty much why I voted 'no' - I don't think we'd be noticeably better off.

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      • #33
        I see Kerry as President doing the same sort of stuff Obama is doing only even more lethargically.

        After 9/11 I could see Kerry's response as a combination of drone / cruise missile strikes and treating it as a police issue. That is wanting the FBI and such to hunt down the organizers and then arrest and try them. Obama disastrously tried this route initially too.

        Domestically, I see him at a complete impasse, unable to push anything through Congress because his initiatives are either insane or unpopular. Losing the mid-terms and faced with a Republican led congress Kerry would be impotent. His wooden character would not leave him the option of using personal charisma to get popular support either.

        I think on the whole the nation would have been worse off with Kerry, far worse off. Kerry would have been another Carter and would have stalled Obama's chance of getting elected in 2008

        Comment


        • #34
          Let me repeat myself. Kerry is a lying, traitorous coward that not only is undeserving of being POTUS, but should have been rotting in a military prison all of these years. He's the worst kind of person and the last kind of person who should be running this country.

          Nothing against lakechampainger, but this whole thread only serves to highlight a mental and moral deficiency of some of the leftist posters here.
          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
            Let me repeat myself. Kerry is a lying, traitorous coward that not only is undeserving of being POTUS, but should have been rotting in a military prison all of these years. He's the worst kind of person and the last kind of person who should be running this country.

            Nothing against lakechampainger, but this whole thread only serves to highlight a mental and moral deficiency of some of the leftist posters here.
            I don't even think you could actually identify a leftist if you tried.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
              Well it seems some people still believe in the whole "swiftboating" fiasco. It retrospect it just seems like it was a trial run for the birthers.
              I believe far more of Kerry's "Swift boating" was no fiasco, as it generally worked far more readily than the disastrous attempts by those opposed to Bush to "prove" he was a deserter or didn't do his reserve duty. It cost Dan Rather his job in a very public disaster of the forged documents that Progressive underlings provided all-too-readily to him without vetting.
              The Internet proved to be CBS's undoing. What would have taken weeks, maybe months to disprove took less than 72 hours with the Internet.

              Kerry's "Swift boating" on the other hand hasn't come undone beyond pointing out details here and there that one or another person got wrong or misstated. On the whole the story Kerry went to Swift boats to further his future political career, and his subsequent activities (both anti-Vietnam, and anti-American) are also well documented.
              It would be very difficult indeed for someone to discredit or disprove. John Kerry is a far Leftist and likely a traitor, certainly a liar, and extremely unreliable and disreputable.

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              • #37
                No, because Genghis Khan was much smarter and much better looking than Kerry. ma ny DNA experts say Genghis Khan fathered many children and Kerry could never do that like Genghis Khan.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sgt. Rock View Post
                  No, because Genghis Khan was much smarter and much better looking than Kerry. ma ny DNA experts say Genghis Khan fathered many children and Kerry could never do that like Genghis Khan.
                  You're right that's because he'd have to mother them...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    You're right that's because he'd have to mother them...
                    Mothers Day is coming up on Sunday and mothers are awesome and wonderful. I dont think Kerry should ever be mentioned in a sentence that includes awesome and wonderfiul.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      I believe far more of Kerry's "Swift boating" was no fiasco, as it generally worked far more readily than the disastrous attempts by those opposed to Bush to "prove" he was a deserter or didn't do his reserve duty. It cost Dan Rather his job in a very public disaster of the forged documents that Progressive underlings provided all-too-readily to him without vetting.
                      The Internet proved to be CBS's undoing. What would have taken weeks, maybe months to disprove took less than 72 hours with the Internet.
                      I mean "fiasco" as in "another new low for political discourse in modern America".

                      Kerry's "Swift boating" on the other hand hasn't come undone beyond pointing out details here and there that one or another person got wrong or misstated. On the whole the story Kerry went to Swift boats to further his future political career, and his subsequent activities (both anti-Vietnam, and anti-American) are also well documented.
                      It would be very difficult indeed for someone to discredit or disprove.
                      http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

                      "In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

                      "If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3

                      — Fred Short

                      "I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

                      I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3

                      — David Alston

                      "What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2

                      — James Wasser

                      The swift boating refers to the veterans who "served with Kerry" making statements about him that were negative, when the men he actually did serve with were much more positive.

                      Indeed, it's so widely recognized as a lie and a dirty political trick that even conservatives have adopted the term when describing the left.


                      Here's a book where the term "swiftboating" is described by the conservative author as "the political trick of claiming to expose truth while in fact lying", and "used as a verb, came to mean just that: undermining character and credibility, no matter whether the charges are accurate."

                      The sad thing is that it's negatively affected how we see Vietnam veterans who did serve in swiftboats:

                      Swift boat veterans — especially those who had nothing to do with the group that attacked Senator John Kerry’s military record in the 2004 election — want their good name back, and the good names of the men not lucky enough to come home alive.

                      “You would not hear the word ‘Swift boat’ and think of people that served their country and fought in Vietnam,” said Jim Newell, who spent a year as an officer in charge on one of the small Navy vessels in An Thoi and Qui Nhon. “You think about someone who was involved in a political attack on a member of a different party. It just comes across as negative. Everyone who is associated with a Swift boat is involved in political chicanery.”
                      NYT - Veterans Long to Reclaim the Name ‘Swift Boat’

                      And of course, as the Navy itself has said:

                      Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed. In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards. Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive. The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place. Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter.
                      - Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, 2004

                      So the "proof" is nothing more than suggestion and rumor, and quite frankly there's a case to be made for it to be nothing but political libel.

                      If you're going to attack Kerry, attack him for his post-war service. God knows there's enough dung in that heap to keep him out of the White House. But like the birthers and Obama, don't just make stuff up or believe every negative comment about the opposition you hear.

                      John Kerry is a far Leftist and likely a traitor, certainly a liar, and extremely unreliable and disreputable.
                      Is "traitor" the new "communist" in American politics? Who in Obama's cabinet hasn't been labelled "traitor" this week?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        "Swift boating" is hardly a new thing and not nearly the worst:

                        http://listverse.com/2014/01/18/10-w...ican-politics/

                        http://reason.com/archives/2006/10/1...political-race

                        Dirty politics is nothing new. Kerry had a lot of baggage, like Hillary to overcome. Even Obama had a considerable amount considering the brevity of his political career.

                        They are hardly alone. But, one problem for the Left in US politics is that their past is usually one long string of negatives when it comes to the majority of the US population. They have to work much harder to hide their past than more centrist or Right leaning candidates do.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The "Swift Boat" thing is nothing compared to how he hurt the POWS with his slander during the ending days of US involvement in the Vietnam War. Using a POW's mother to promote his anti war agenda is more then disgusting. It is treasonous!

                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                            I don't even think you could actually identify a leftist if you tried.
                            Wrong. Again, as usual I'll add. But when or if I did, they'll just deny it because no body wants to be labeled a "leftist" or a "lefty" or "of the Left" and other accurate labels. Because they don't have the moral strength to stand up and be counted for their beliefs, knowing deep down the wrongness of them.
                            The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              "Swift boating" is hardly a new thing and not nearly the worst:

                              http://listverse.com/2014/01/18/10-w...ican-politics/

                              http://reason.com/archives/2006/10/1...political-race

                              Dirty politics is nothing new. Kerry had a lot of baggage, like Hillary to overcome. Even Obama had a considerable amount considering the brevity of his political career.

                              They are hardly alone. But, one problem for the Left in US politics is that their past is usually one long string of negatives when it comes to the majority of the US population. They have to work much harder to hide their past than more centrist or Right leaning candidates do.
                              I assume your talking about the Dixie democrats of the past here?

                              Or the fact that during WW2, FDR(a democrat) did approve of the internment of Japanese Americans during WW2.

                              Its true that some of the Democrats of the past held views that some today may consider to be bigoted. But this type of behavior extended to the Republicans as well. As recent as the early 1970s, Richard Nixon and Billy Graham were caught on top making derogatory comments about Jews and the Irish. A previous advisory to Nixon stated it was not that Nixon was against Jews, rather this is how many men of the time spoke. Now I was not alive during the 1960s or early 1970, but the tv show mad men has received much critical acclaim for its portray of past race relations in the USA. Back in those days it wasn't necessarily deemed offensive to use the term Jap, when describing Japanese people.

                              These days, our Attorney General is Black, our CIC of course is black, our current CIC is a two term President btw. But I just wanted to point out that the dixie democrats were not the only Americans with questionable views on race/religion, this extended to republicans and other political parties as well.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                                These days, our Attorney General is Black, our CIC of course is black, our current CIC is a two term President btw. But I just wanted to point out that the dixie democrats were not the only Americans with questionable views on race/religion, this extended to republicans and other political parties as well.
                                The president is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. He is not the commander-in-chief of the nation-he is the president of the United States.

                                So, to say that the president, any president, is 'our' commander-in-chief is technically and factually wrong. The civilian citizens of the United States do not have a 'commander-in-chief.' The US Armed Forces do.

                                Sincerely,
                                M
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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