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  • #46
    Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
    So, what happens when they find one at a friends house or one discarded by some criminal in a field?
    1. That's not under your control or responsibility. Ones in your household are.
    2. If you've taught them firearms safety, it shouldn't be a problem.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
      So, what happens when they find one at a friends house or one discarded by some criminal in a field?
      Who is responsible for that house? The friend. Just as I am responsible to provide a secure environment at my home, others are required to provide the same. Real simple.

      You're also making a jump to the conclusion that all kids can never be taught/trained about weapons and what to do around them unless someone leaves them out in the open and loaded. Once again, it is NOT an either/or situation.
      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
      “To talk of many things:
      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
      Of cabbages—and kings—
      And why the sea is boiling hot—
      And whether pigs have wings.”
      ― Lewis Carroll

      Comment


      • #48
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • #49
          Anyone that thinks a 5 year-old can understand the concept of firearm safety never has raised children.
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
            Anyone that thinks a 5 year-old can understand the concept of firearm safety never has raised children.
            They can start learning it and applying it under strict supervision. I started shooting a .22 at the age of 4, on a Army Post range in Panama. I went through all the steps necessary to safely fire the weapon on a range. I was also watched/Supervised very carefully as I did. I then helped disassemble and clean the weapon after we were done. Doesn't mean that my Dad left loaded weapons around in the open....
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
              Great post, keep these comeing.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                If you invite guest into your home, you are responsible for providing a safe environment for them. If you invite guest with small children into your home you are responsible for providing a safe environment for them. Common sense. The man in question did not do so. "charged with misdemeanor injury to a child " seems appropriate to me. The fact that it was a weapon is immaterial. If he had left a hunting knife in a location where that 5 year old could access it and that was used to cause injury then the same charge should apply.
                100% agreement with this train of thought.

                To those that say it defeats home defense;

                If the threat condition was so high that you need to keep a loaded gun handy, it should be on your person. Not laying around the house where a threat has easy access to it. That is exactly how the military works regarding guns. 30 years ago we would have them locked to our bunks if an armory wasn't an option. When we didn't have it locked up, it was always on our person. If we were entering an area where we couldn't take it, weapons were stacked and a guard established.

                A 5 year old should be trained on how to load, clear, shoot, and maintain a weapon with close adult supervision. A 5 year old should not be part of a home defense plan. The weapons should stay locked up and only accessible with adult supervision. If the threat condition is high, you really should not be inviting guest over to the house. The house should be on lockdown with owners having positive control of the guns.

                I've mentioned this in other threads, the pre frontal cortex is the last part of the brain to be developed, by the mid 20's it has finished development:

                "Executive suite": The cluster of functions that center in the prefrontal cortex is sometimes called the "executive suite," including calibration of risk and reward, problem-solving, prioritizing, thinking ahead, self-evaluation, long-term planning, and regulation of emotion. (See Merlin Donald, Daniel Keating, and others in References.) It is not that these tasks cannot be done before young adulthood, but rather that it takes less effort, and hence is more likely to happen.

                http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html

                Having a loaded gun laying around the house, even with firearm training is setting the youngsters up for failure.

                I think most people here know that I own guns...even the evil black guns. All of my kids have been taught proper firearms handling. The youngest began when she was 6, the oldest when she was 14. None of them have the combination to the safe and they are not part of the home defense plan. But if put in a supervised situation they know what needs to be done.

                This isn't about taking gun rights away, this is about not setting children up for failure.
                Last edited by Nichols; 02 May 15, 09:05.
                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                  100% agreement with this train of thought.

                  To those that say it defeats home defense;

                  If the threat condition was so high that you need to keep a loaded gun handy, it should be on your person. Not laying around the house where a threat has easy access to it. That is exactly how the military works regarding guns. 30 years ago we would have them locked to our bunks if an armory wasn't an option. When we didn't have it locked up, it was always on our person. If we were entering an area where we couldn't take it, weapons were stacked and a guard established.

                  A 5 year old should be trained on how to load, clear, shoot, and maintain a weapon with close adult supervision. A 5 year old should not be part of a home defense plan. The weapons should stay locked up and only accessible with adult supervision. If the threat condition is high, you really should be inviting guest over to the house. The house should be on lockdown with owners having positive control of the guns.

                  I've mentioned this in other threads, the pre frontal cortex is the last part of the brain to be developed, by the mid 20's it has finished development:

                  "Executive suite": The cluster of functions that center in the prefrontal cortex is sometimes called the "executive suite," including calibration of risk and reward, problem-solving, prioritizing, thinking ahead, self-evaluation, long-term planning, and regulation of emotion. (See Merlin Donald, Daniel Keating, and others in References.) It is not that these tasks cannot be done before young adulthood, but rather that it takes less effort, and hence is more likely to happen.

                  http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html

                  Having a loaded gun laying around the house, even with training firearm training is setting the youngsters up for failure.

                  I think most people here know that I own guns...even the evil black guns. All of my kids have been taught proper firearms handling. The youngest began when she was 6, the oldest when she was 14. None of them have the combination to the safe and they are not part of the home defense plan. But if put in a supervised situation they know what needs to be done.

                  This isn't about taking gun rights away, this is about not setting children up for failure.
                  Best post in the thread. Thanks for all the thought in it.

                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                    Anyone that thinks a 5 year-old can understand the concept of firearm safety never has raised children.
                    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    They can start learning it and applying it under strict supervision. I started shooting a .22 at the age of 4, on a Army Post range in Panama. I went through all the steps necessary to safely fire the weapon on a range. I was also watched/Supervised very carefully as I did. I then helped disassemble and clean the weapon after we were done. Doesn't mean that my Dad left loaded weapons around in the open....
                    While I agree with both of you (I had my own 12 ga shotgun at age 12), I still contend that little kids should not have access to firearms, whether they are loaded or unloaded!
                    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I got a .22 at 8. I was raised to respect firearms and use them safely. I have no idea how many gophers and squirrels I sent to the happy hunting grounds...

                      I got a quarter apiece for the gophers...

                      My daughter was raised with guns being around and being taught firearm safety. This was before gun locks were common. I just kept them locked up and out of reach.

                      It's not a hard concept...
                      Credo quia absurdum.


                      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        You're also making a jump to the conclusion that all kids can never be taught/trained about weapons and what to do around them unless someone leaves them out in the open and loaded. Once again, it is NOT an either/or situation.
                        No, that is your assumption. I am just pointing out the danger of the other irresponsible party when your kids were not taught about gun safety because you chose not to have them in your house.
                        “Breaking News,”

                        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                          No, that is your assumption. I am just pointing out the danger of the other irresponsible party when your kids were not taught about gun safety because you chose not to have them in your house.
                          See, there you go. You ASSUME that children are not taught weapon safety if no weapons are in the house. Poor assumption. Once again the two are NOT either/or, you can have BOTH situations.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            See, there you go. You ASSUME that children are not taught weapon safety if no weapons are in the house. Poor assumption. Once again the two are NOT either/or, you can have BOTH situations.
                            Do you know that for a fact assuming they are not your kids living in a gun free home?
                            “Breaking News,”

                            “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                              Do you know that for a fact assuming they are not your kids living in a gun free home?
                              There are no facts when you generalize. However yes it is a fact that a parent can teach a child about gun safety without having a weapon in the home. There is nothing preventing it in the slightest. DO parents teach such safety? Depends on the parent. We know that the parents that are the subject of this thread either did not do so or did a poor job even though they have weapons in the house.
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I wonder how much is this due to a change of times? As a teen, 1960 or so, I had a number of weapons/guns of one sort or the other. They were in my room and in no other way secured. My sister and her 3 kids 6 or less were living with us at the time. No one on afaik gave it a second thought that guns were in the house. The guns were never loaded until in the woods or at the range. I don't know if the kids were warned from their mom or not but they were warned with the threat of death to stay the h out of my room. Those kids are all over 50 now and never had an accident with a fire arm as far as I know.

                                back then few had guns at home and those that had them respected them as well as those that didn't. Seems to me that today , with every Tom, Dick and Harry having a gun that we have lost sight and respect for a gun and many think of it as nothing more than the new HD TV, something neat to half but don't know or except the responsibility of gun ownership.
                                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                                Comment

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