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  • #31
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
    In the first post, you say that America is sue-happy. Then, in the second, you say yourself that the parents are liable. Which one is it? Is suing good or bad?
    This is at least the second time that you've mentioned how terrible drunk drivers have it. Maybe you need to look in the mirror...
    It keeps breaking.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
      In the first post, you say that America is sue-happy. Then, in the second, you say yourself that the parents are liable. Which one is it? Is suing good or bad?
      This is at least the second time that you've mentioned how terrible drunk drivers have it. Maybe you need to look in the mirror...
      No, I'm consistent. America is sue happy. America also looks for a fall guy to blame for their problems. Everyone is a victim and no one takes personal responsibility.

      A misdemeanor charge is probably appropriate in this case.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        You never watched a western or war film on TV as a kid? Ever shot one of your playmates a couple hundred times over a summer of cowboy and Indians? Ever get your butt spanked or month soaped? Your right. To many "parents" don't take their roll seriously.
        John, I'm talking about the steady diet of mindless violence on today's TV, not Roy Rogers, the TV Lone Ranger, and the John Wayne war movies. Also, video games such as Postal and Grand Thief Auto, violence against the innocent just for the sake of violence. We knew the difference between cowboys and indians or cops and robbers, two games today's Progressives have banned from play along with the cap guns, and what a real gun could do. And, if a kid got spanked or his mouth soaped, he would be running to the social workers instead of learning his lesson.
        “Breaking News,”

        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

        Comment


        • #34
          The obvious solution is to ban children. Only then will we be safe.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
            Read the link. Idaho suburb near Pocatello.

            Yes, they do and your point?

            Secure your weapons appropriately and secure a heavy TV if it can fall. No reason not to do both. It is not an either or situation.

            If you invite guest into your home you are responsible to provide a secure environment for them.

            If you have children, your own or others, you are responsible to provide a safe environment for them

            Nothing complicated about it.
            Kids do lots of stupid things that end up causing injury or death.

            Not only do they tip over heavy TV sets onto them, they use dresser drawers as steps thus tipping them over, fall out of second floor windows, drown in 5 gallon buckets, fall out of trees, run into busy streets, play with matches and lighters, drink poisonous liquids they find in the cleaning closet, eat pills that look like candy, think those colorful detergent pods are candy, swallow tiny batteries, short out on wiring, knock over lamps, break windows, pull pans of boiling hot food off a stove, etc...

            And, the older kids that know better, they may eat anything, drink anything, inhale, anything, smoke anything, inject anything, and hang themselves in their quest to get high.

            In short, parents have to not only kid proof their home and environment, they have to educate and discipline as necessary their kids so that they become aware of their own safety.
            “Breaking News,”

            “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              The obvious solution is to ban children. Only then will we be safe.
              If your mother had only thought of that....
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                The obvious solution is to ban children. Only then will we be safe.
                The Hildabeast already have a plan for that. It is called "It Takes A Village."
                “Breaking News,”

                “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                Comment


                • #38
                  Jim, for contrast ...

                  ... I give you how a non-gun culture/society deals with trying to prevent this sort of tragic event. In Canada this a no-brainer "Unsafe Storage" charge, AS FEDERALLY LEGISLATED under Sec. 86(2) of the Criminal Code of Canada.

                  From Wikibooks:

                  Careless use of firearm, etc.
                  86. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.

                  Contravention of storage regulations, etc.
                  (2) Every person commits an offence who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act respecting the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sales of firearms and restricted weapons.


                  Duty of Care
                  Section 86(1) imposes a “a specific and rigorous duty of care” upon the accused to store firearms and ammunition.

                  The Crown must prove that the accused’s conduct “constitutes a marked departure from the standard of care of a reasonably prudent person”.

                  However, even where there is a marked departure from the standard of care, where “reasonable precautions were taken” or there is otherwise doubt, then the court must acquit. The court must also be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that there were not enough "precautions taken by the accused to avoid the creation of risk" and the accused had the "capacity ...to meet the standard of care of a reasonably prudent person in the circumstances” but failed to do so.

                  The standard of care is assessed objectively while taking into account the accused’s capacities in the circumstances and the “accused’s ability to control or compensate for his … incapacities”.

                  Unlike offences that require standard of care, there is no defence of due diligence if the offence is otherwise made out.

                  Offences of breach of duty of care do not require a purely subjective intention. They only require "proof of intention or actual foresight of a prohibited consequence.


                  See what I mean? The Crown can elect to proceed by Summary Conviction (Misdemeanour in the US), or by Indictment (Felony in the US), as follows:

                  Careless Use or Storage of a Firearm
                  s. 86 of the Crim. Code
                  Election / Plea
                  Crown Election Hybrid
                  Jurisdiction Prov. Court
                  SC Judge + PI (I)
                  SC Jury + PI (I) (536(2))
                  Summary Dispositions
                  Avail. Disp. Discharge (730)
                  Suspended Sentence (731(1)(a))
                  Fine (734)
                  Fine + Probation (731(1)(b))
                  Jail (718.3, 787)
                  Jail + Probation (731(1)(b))
                  Jail + Fine (734)

                  Conditional Sentence (742.1)
                  Maximum 6 months jail or $5,000 fine
                  Indictable Dispositions
                  Avail. Disp. same as summary
                  Maximum 2 years (first)
                  5 years (second or more)

                  Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                  This is a real case happening in a very rural area, to set the stage for your opinion, here is a newspaper article about the case,

                  "By Journal Staff | Updated Yesterday

                  CHUBBUCK — A Pocatello firefighter who lives in Chubbuck has been charged with misdemeanor injury to a child in the accidental shooting death of 5-year-old Noelle Aston Shawver, of Blackfoot, last July by another 5-year-old.

                  Rusty Lish will be arraigned in Bannock County Magistrate Court on the charge at 1:30 p.m. today.

                  The little girl was killed after being struck by a bullet discharged from a firearm held by another 5-year-old child on the afternoon of July 30, 2014, at Lish's home. Adults in the home at the time were in another room. The deceased girl's parents, Drew and Stacie (Udy) Shawver, of Blackfoot, were visiting the Lish residence on the 600 block of Canal Street in Chubbuck.

                  “It's wrong to have a firearm where a child could get ahold of it,” said Bannock County Prosecutor Steve Herzog. “We've been working on this case for a long time. Everyone knows what happened shouldn't have happened. It's been a really difficult case.”

                  Herzog said the message in this prosecution should be that gun safety is an essential issue when it comes to having children and firearms in a home.

                  A study by Everytown for Gun Safety released in June found that two children in the U.S. die almost every week from unintentional shootings. The study examined every publicly reported case of a child gun death from Dec. 15, 2012, through Dec. 14, 2013, and found 100 unintentional deaths in 35 states during that time period.

                  According to the group, the study found most of the deaths came from a child playing with a gun."

                  So my question is, what if any, charges should the home owner face?
                  Before you answer consider not only did the gun owner leave a loaded .22 cal. rifle within reach of his five year old son, police found a 12 gauge shot gun with a live round in the chamber. A semi auto pistol with a live round in the chamber, and a 7 mm rifle fully loaded with a round in the chamber. All of them within reach of his five year old son.
                  What say you?
                  http://www.idahostatejournal.com/mem....html?mode=jqm
                  "I am Groot"
                  - Groot

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    The obvious solution is to ban children. Only then will we be safe.
                    Gay marriage handles about 80% of that.....

                    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                    “To talk of many things:
                    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                    Of cabbages—and kings—
                    And why the sea is boiling hot—
                    And whether pigs have wings.”
                    ― Lewis Carroll

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                      Kids do lots of stupid things that end up causing injury or death.

                      Not only do they tip over heavy TV sets onto them, they use dresser drawers as steps thus tipping them over, fall out of second floor windows, drown in 5 gallon buckets, fall out of trees, run into busy streets, play with matches and lighters, drink poisonous liquids they find in the cleaning closet, eat pills that look like candy, think those colorful detergent pods are candy, swallow tiny batteries, short out on wiring, knock over lamps, break windows, pull pans of boiling hot food off a stove, etc...

                      And, the older kids that know better, they may eat anything, drink anything, inhale, anything, smoke anything, inject anything, and hang themselves in their quest to get high.

                      In short, parents have to not only kid proof their home and environment, they have to educate and discipline as necessary their kids so that they become aware of their own safety.
                      Of course they do, all of the above. And if someone is a parent and can't figure that all out they need to really sell their weapons for the duration of their parenting and maybe for a live time. They're to stupid to own them responsibly. We need self 'policing' when it comes to weapon ownership.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Leaving one loaded firearm laying around is careless, leaving four firearms within reach of a child with live rounds in the chamber is inexcusable.
                        It takes little effort to safely secure firearms.
                        If this had been a child getting into prescription medications I think some posters would view it differently.
                        There will be a civil law suit filed, and there should be.
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hell I secure my guns and my little one is grown and gone. I don't want thieves to get lucky...

                          They'd have a hell of a time even finding the safe... (Hidden behind a false wall...)
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            Of course they do, all of the above. And if someone is a parent and can't figure that all out they need to really sell their weapons for the duration of their parenting and maybe for a live time. They're to stupid to own them responsibly. We need self 'policing' when it comes to weapon ownership.
                            So, what happens when they find one at a friends house or one discarded by some criminal in a field?
                            “Breaking News,”

                            “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                              So, what happens when they find one at a friends house or one discarded by some criminal in a field?
                              One of the rules of firearm safety is, NEVER LEAVE A LOADED WEAPON UNATTENDED!
                              What is unclear about this?
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                                So, what happens when they find one at a friends house or one discarded by some criminal in a field?
                                What happens when kids encounter a pool? More kids under ten drown every year than have injuries from firearms.

                                I'm telling you, the answer is ban the little bastards before its too late!
                                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                                Comment

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