Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Child Protective Service Overreaching?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Upon reflection, I should point out that each state has its own CPS & related laws, policies, and the like. I'm just defending Texas' agency, not the CPS in the OP.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Double Deuce View Post
      Thats crazy . . These kids were seized when they were only 1/3 of a mile (about 1800 feet) from their house, that's 6 football fields. All the kids in my neighborhood growing up walked to the local elementary school every day from kindergarten on (5 yo). I did a quick google map distance check (I live in another state now or I'd do an exact measure from my old house to the school) and found over half the subdivision, including me an my closest friends were walking farther that what these kids were grabbed for doing.

      At 10-12 my friends and I were riding our bikes to my grandparents house almost every weekend during the summer to go fishing on their pond. I measured that and its
      14.2 miles away.

      I have 3 brothers and each one had a paper route as soon as they were old enough (10). Do they even have paper routes anymore?
      "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

      "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
        You can arrest someone for planning crimes though. Murder etc.
        Yep, they call that premeditation.
        "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

        "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Persephone View Post
          Yep, they call that premeditation.
          Or conspiracy to commit.

          Pretty rare to actually get a charge in advance of the crime. Usually if you do, its because you had an informant in place.

          A lot of prosecutors don't care for conspiracy cases because they are hard to prove and juries are a lot less receptive.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            Or conspiracy to commit.

            Pretty rare to actually get a charge in advance of the crime. Usually if you do, its because you had an informant in place.

            A lot of prosecutors don't care for conspiracy cases because they are hard to prove and juries are a lot less receptive.
            Seems to me it's not really likely cops can arrest people before crimes are committed. As you pointed out, you'd need a 1984-like surveillance of pretty much everybody to prevent crimes in this way. Cops can arrest people in advance of a crime when another crime is committed...conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime itself, so you'd arrest someone for planning a crime if you were lucky enough to have proof you could stick someone with. You're still only able to arrest them for the crime they committed-the conspiracy, not the crime they were planning.

            I work for a school district and we have our share of CPS cases within our schools all the time...custody problems, kids being abused, all the usual horrible treatment of kids that happen way too much. I think around here the thinking is better to be too cautious rather than not cautious enough, so for them to take temporary custody of a kid while they sort out what's going on at home is not uncommon and not overstepping reasonable action in my opinion. Sadly, the overwhelming majority of calls to CPS have nothing to do with predators or any type of danger coming from outside the homes...it's the parents 90% or more of the time.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              Or conspiracy to commit.

              Pretty rare to actually get a charge in advance of the crime. Usually if you do, its because you had an informant in place.

              A lot of prosecutors don't care for conspiracy cases because they are hard to prove and juries are a lot less receptive.

              The only arrests I can think of have been those plotting terrorist acts on US soil.
              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

              Comment


              • #22
                This issue may not be about government intervention as it may be about how people should mind their own business. This is about people who have had the police called on them for leaving children in a car in seemingly not dangerous conditions. It is not about free range children as much as about a parenting choice and being judged for it. The below extracted paragraphs are about how "good samaritans" notice some little thing and how much easier it is to call for intervention than it used to be and I think that might be the real issue. It is just very simple to call the police on very short notice. If one had to go home to do it, one would likely reconsider or forget or get distracted—but it is very easy to pull that cell phone out and call right now.
                Lately, I’ve become as interested in these people who call the police on women like myself as I am in the victims of this new type of harassment. And when I think about them, it’s not indignation I feel but sadness and regret at how little any of us know about each other’s lives. I see these good samaritans slowing down in a parking lot, resisting the anonymity of modern life, wanting to help but unsure of what to do, of how to reach out or engage. I see them grappling with this uncertainty for the briefest moment, then reaching for the phone. We’re raising our kids in a moment when it’s easier to call 911 than to have a conversation.
                […]
                The last time I spoke with Courtney, she’d been released from the supervision component of her probation, had succeeded in having her daughter’s case closed with CPS, and seemed to have made peace with both herself and the woman who called the police on her. Still, she feels like she’s a more nervous mother than before. Her daughter will refuse to wear her gloves on a cold day, and she feels like people are watching and judging her for it. And recently, she grew nervous when her family went to visit a friend for the weekend and they set up an air mattress for her daughter in the corridor between the bedroom and the walk-in closet. Her daughter loved this and yelled with delight, “I get to sleep in the closet!” Courtney felt her whole body tense when she heard her, and warned her not to say that at school. “I guess I worry more about what people will think,” she told me. And also, she, like me, worries about raising her daughter in a world so often lacking in human decency.

                She described to me how, just the other day, she took her daughter to a restaurant for lunch. She tries not to give her too much restaurant food and had brought a peanut butter sandwich and some cut-up vegetables. Her daughter was happily eating when a woman at a nearby table approached, pointed at the sandwich. “You know this is a peanut-free restaurant,” she said.

                Courtney apologized, asked if the woman was allergic, said she’d move to another table. “I’m not allergic,” the woman answered. “I just thought you should know.” A moment later, a waiter was sent to throw the offending sandwich in the garbage as the girl began to weep.

                Courtney told me all this and I couldn’t tell if she was crying or laughing, which is the place I find myself most days. “I mean, what’s wrong with people?” she asked. “Has everyone in the world gone insane?”
                http://www.alternet.org/gender/what-...-mothers-lives
                Homo homini lupus

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                  Seems to me it's not really likely cops can arrest people before crimes are committed. As you pointed out, you'd need a 1984-like surveillance of pretty much everybody to prevent crimes in this way. Cops can arrest people in advance of a crime when another crime is committed...conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime itself, so you'd arrest someone for planning a crime if you were lucky enough to have proof you could stick someone with. You're still only able to arrest them for the crime they committed-the conspiracy, not the crime they were planning.
                  Yeah. In Texas conspiracy is one degree lower than the crime plotted, but you have to have proof of definitive preparations taken to actually commit the crime. The few times I've seen it in play are people trying to hire hit men, or when you turn somebody on a lesser charge and he wears a wire while a group plans a job, allowing you to track them on their prep work. Both pretty rare.

                  Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                  I work for a school district and we have our share of CPS cases within our schools all the time...custody problems, kids being abused, all the usual horrible treatment of kids that happen way too much. I think around here the thinking is better to be too cautious rather than not cautious enough, so for them to take temporary custody of a kid while they sort out what's going on at home is not uncommon and not overstepping reasonable action in my opinion. Sadly, the overwhelming majority of calls to CPS have nothing to do with predators or any type of danger coming from outside the homes...it's the parents 90% or more of the time.
                  Yeah, its amazing what goes on within some families/homes.

                  And its amazing how much damage can be done without it being criminal.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                    The only arrests I can think of have been those plotting terrorist acts on US soil.
                    You get the occasional person trying to hire a hit man, and the odd snitch wearing a wire, but its very rare.

                    I think its more common in white collar crime at the higher levels.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Its Ironic that this goes on while the Alabama Department of Human Resources will leave a kid in an abusive home because as I've heard them say, "A home with parents is better than a home with no parents." Just like everything else in America, we have our priorities mixed up.
                      “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                      --Salmon P. Chase

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Savez View Post
                        Its Ironic that this goes on while the Alabama Department of Human Resources will leave a kid in an abusive home because as I've heard them say, "A home with parents is better than a home with no parents." Just like everything else in America, we have our priorities mixed up.
                        There's also the practical side, which is that beds in foster care are woefully outnumbered by the number of endangered kids.

                        So: do you leave a kid in a abusive home in order to free up a bed for a child being employed as a prostitute, or vice versa?

                        Is an abusive home where the child is fed and clothed and taken to school worse than a home where the kid isn't fed, clothed, or sent to school but is not physically abused?

                        These are real issues. There is not enough resources to go around, so who gets left out, and who does not? There isn't a state in the Union which has an adequately-funded foster care system.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment

                        Latest Topics

                        Collapse

                        Working...
                        X