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73 year old LEO mistakes pistol for a taser. You know the rest of the story.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by the ace View Post
    My bold.

    Don't the, 'Scots,' in Texas vote Republican ? That's hardly a mark of intelligence. We don't execute anybody in Scotland, and our crime rates for last year are the lowest on record - I can't remember a police officer being injured, far less killed on duty here (there have been a handful of instances in England, with ten times the population).

    The diaspora was pretty much forced, and my ancestors arrived in Scotland about the same time theirs arrived in the US, I know calling myself Irish would be a lie.

    I voted, 'Yes,' to independence, and the Scottish National Party has quadrupled its membership since the referendum and is set to give Labour a royal pasting in the upcoming General Election (David Cameron's Conservatives are irrelevant, and the Lib/Dems are dead men walking).

    There'll be another indyref at some point, just not yet - support continues to grow.
    Most of the Scot descendants in the Southern States are Scots Irish, so are descended from Ulster Protestants rather than Scotland direct. That would more likely be Canada for those .

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      Why was a 73 year old volunteer policeman involved in an undercover operation against a potentially violent suspect?

      Shouldn't a 73 year old be doing a support role where he is unlikely to have to face a violent confrontation?

      On the face of it, it looks like the officer made a mistake under stress in a situation that he should never have been in.
      These are questions which will haunt the agency and help the deputy.

      Lucky for them the guy involved was a dedicated felon.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        These are questions which will haunt the agency and help the deputy.

        Lucky for them the guy involved was a dedicated felon.
        This will haunt the reserve officer the rest of his life.
        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
          This will haunt the reserve officer the rest of his life.
          Depends on the deputy. Most of us never look back.

          Too much melodrama, UH. You keep looking for drama and meaning in these sorts of things.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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          • #80
            Hi

            I wonder if he was caught up in the 'excitement' of the chase and hadn't used his 'toy' before. The victim didn't look like he was gong anywhere fast, when this 'wannabee' decided to taser him!

            Regards

            Andy H
            "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

            "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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            • #81
              The officer's superiors are in trouble for falsifying the officer's pistol training records. He should never have been in possession of the gun...let alone a taser.


              Sources: Supervisors told to falsify reserve deputy's training records; department announces internal review

              Supervisors ordered to credit reserve deputy with proper papers.

              http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/...7b03c6c04.html
              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Andy H View Post
                Hi

                I wonder if he was caught up in the 'excitement' of the chase and hadn't used his 'toy' before. The victim didn't look like he was gong anywhere fast, when this 'wannabee' decided to taser him!

                Regards

                Andy H
                No, it would be a valid use of an ECD, and he performed the proper verbal commands.

                There's a bit more to this than you understand.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                  The officer's superiors are in trouble for falsifying the officer's pistol training records. He should never have been in possession of the gun...let alone a taser.
                  Read the entire article:

                  Undersheriff Tim Albin was unavailable for comment Wednesday but in an earlier interview, Albin said he was unaware of any concerns expressed by supervisors about Bates’ training.

                  The Sheriff’s Office has released a summary listing training courses Bates had been given credit for but have not released documents showing which supervisors signed off on that training.

                  He rejected claims that Bates’ training records were falsified and that supervisors who refused to do so were transferred to less desirable assignments.
                  A media claim. No proof either way right now.

                  Still, if he wasn't qualified with his weapon, that will help the deputy, hurt the department.

                  If they sent him out with inadequate training, the deputy is in a much better position.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • #84
                    FYI:

                    §21-722. Manslaughter in the second degree a felony - Penalty.

                    Any person guilty of manslaughter in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not more than four (4) years and not less than two (2) years, or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one (1) year, or by a fine not exceeding One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or both fine and imprisonment.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      These are questions which will haunt the agency and help the deputy.

                      Lucky for them the guy involved was a dedicated felon.
                      I can't see why he has even been charged.

                      He made a mistake in a high stress situation that he shouldn't have been in.

                      Could the Agency/ senior officers be trying to protect themselves by charging him?
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                        I can't see why he has even been charged.

                        He made a mistake in a high stress situation that he shouldn't have been in.

                        Could the Agency/ senior officers be trying to protect themselves by charging him?
                        I think the prosecutor is trying to help him.

                        I believe the prosecutor charged him with the lowest charge possible so that media pressure could not get a higher charge applied.

                        And charged him with a charge which will be less likely to stick, as well.

                        I noted some posts back links showing where there are already case law and experts willing to testify as to how this sort of thing occurs-its certainly far from the first incident.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                          I can't see why he has even been charged.

                          He made a mistake in a high stress situation that he shouldn't have been in.

                          Could the Agency/ senior officers be trying to protect themselves by charging him?
                          The fact that he chose to be in this situation despite that is what shuts the door for me. I tend to be pretty hard on old timers who get themselves in over their heads. When you know that your wits and your reflexes are failing and you choose to continue driving/engaging in police work/insert activity that requires mental acuity and is dangerous to bystanders when you lack it, just because you're too prideful to hang up your spurs, as far as I'm concerned that's no different than choosing to drive when intoxicated. Throw the book at him. I have no tolerance for that sort of behavior. I respect my elders but when they're too old for these sorts of things they need to man up and accept it and not go endangering people just so they can pretend they still got it.
                          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                          • #88
                            Cops have a license to kill apparently, at least it seems that way with every LEO on the forum.
                            I do not recall a single case in which any have crossed the "Blue Line."

                            So I would ask is there any case in which an officer would be guilty?
                            I do believe this reserve officer did not intentionally kill the man, but I wonder if any LEO would be as understanding if a citizen unintentionally killed an officer?
                            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              Cops have a license to kill apparently, at least it seems that way with every LEO on the forum.
                              I do not recall a single case in which any have crossed the "Blue Line."

                              So I would ask is there any case in which an officer would be guilty?
                              I do believe this reserve officer did not intentionally kill the man, but I wonder if any LEO would be as understanding if a citizen unintentionally killed an officer?
                              Haven't really seen that. During the threads that broach on recent events, the LEO's have been consistent with giving their experience and ending with "let the facts come out". The problem seems to be that when the event happens, everybody rushes to judgement and then lose interest as the months that go by. Personally, I value their impute to the forums and would not paint them with a "license to kill". I feel it is undeserved.
                              My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by holly6 View Post
                                Haven't really seen that. During the threads that broach on recent events, the LEO's have been consistent with giving their experience and ending with "let the facts come out". The problem seems to be that when the event happens, everybody rushes to judgement and then lose interest as the months that go by. Personally, I value their impute to the forums and would not paint them with a "license to kill". I feel it is undeserved.
                                I also value their input, which is why I asked them if there has ever been a situation they thought the officer was wrong. I realize they must feel like the press is always out to get them, I get that.
                                No doubt the good video is never shown.
                                Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                                Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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