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73 year old LEO mistakes pistol for a taser. You know the rest of the story.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    After all, the media's track record in these incidents has been utterly terrible. Zimmerman, Ferguson, even going back to Diallo (sp) they are quick to present a fiction, only to run afoul of the courts.
    The media is a major player in all this. They would have us believe we're policed by the Keystone Kops. Problem is, too many departments are tripping over themselves to act like the Keystone Kops.

    Every profession has it's bad seeds, but with policing, the bad ones tend to make the whole department look bad.
    Last edited by Gixxer86g; 14 Apr 15, 04:34.
    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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    • #62
      Well, they charged the deputy with a negligence charge. Fro the chatter on the boards it was to forestall a media-induced frenzy for a more serious charge.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by the ace View Post
        My bold.

        Don't the, 'Scots,' in Texas vote Republican ? That's hardly a mark of intelligence. We don't execute anybody in Scotland, and our crime rates for last year are the lowest on record - I can't remember a police officer being injured, far less killed on duty here (there have been a handful of instances in England, with ten times the population).
        Like I said: you're docile. You toe the line. Its not a bad thing-the English certainly appreciate you!

        You also compile crime rates differently than the USA, BTW.

        I am very pleased that we execute people.

        You're going to try to talk about intelligent voting when independence was on the ballot and you couldn't even muster a full turn-out?

        Originally posted by the ace View Post
        The diaspora was pretty much forced, and my ancestors arrived in Scotland about the same time theirs arrived in the US, I know calling myself Irish would be a lie.

        I voted, 'Yes,' to independence, and the Scottish National Party has quadrupled its membership since the referendum and is set to give Labour a royal pasting in the upcoming General Election (David Cameron's Conservatives are irrelevant, and the Lib/Dems are dead men walking).

        There'll be another indyref at some point, just not yet - support continues to grow.
        Sure, take another hundred years. Sooner or later you'll get up the nerve.

        Funny, when we left the Empire, we didn't have to ask anyone's permission.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          Well, they charged the deputy with a negligence charge. Fro the chatter on the boards it was to forestall a media-induced frenzy for a more serious charge.
          Official Charge is second-degree manslaughter.

          http://www.newson6.com/story/2879037...c-harris-death

          “Mr. Bates is charged with Second-Degree Manslaughter involving culpable negligence," said District Attorney Stephen Kunzweiler.
          "Oklahoma law defines culpable negligence as ‘the omission to do something which a reasonably careful person would do, or the lack of the usual ordinary care and caution in the performance of an act usually and ordinarily exercised by a person under similar circumstances and conditions,'” Kunzweiler said.
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
            The media is a major player in all this. They would have us believe we're policed by the Keystone Kops. Problem is, too many departments are tripping over themselves to act like the Keystone Kops.

            Every profession has it's bad seeds, but with policing, the bad ones tend to make the whole department look bad.
            There's over 50,000 LE agencies in the USA, policing over 300 million people. There's always going to be human error and bad policies.

            MDs kill about 19,000 people a year through errors.

            The media is under no obligation to tell the truth, or to give context.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              Official Charge is second-degree manslaughter.

              http://www.newson6.com/story/2879037...c-harris-death
              Yup.

              Culpable negligence is the key. To convict, the prosecution will have to show that he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, was neglectful in his duties.

              Given the expert testimony on the subject, and in dire straits his age, he has several excellent options insofar as defense.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                Yup.

                Culpable negligence is the key. To convict, the prosecution will have to show that he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, was neglectful in his duties.

                Given the expert testimony on the subject, and in dire straits his age, he has several excellent options insofar as defense.
                Reckless is a given
                Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                  Reckless is a given
                  Not so.

                  Use of Force may only be judged based upon the user's perception of the act at the time of the act.

                  At the time he pulled the trigger the Deputy thought he was using a TASER, as evidenced by his verbal warning before and his blurted statement immediately after.

                  Under the circumstances at the time he pulled the trigger, the use of an ECD was perfectly valid.

                  Plus there's this:

                  http://www.policeone.com/police-trai...capture-errors

                  Note the reference to a lack of stress-based training.

                  Because of the age of the article, I'll add that the officer served 11 months, mostly under house arrest in a much less valid case (the guy he shot was handcuffed).
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    Not so.

                    Use of Force may only be judged based upon the user's perception of the act at the time of the act.

                    At the time he pulled the trigger the Deputy thought he was using a TASER, as evidenced by his verbal warning before and his blurted statement immediately after.

                    Under the circumstances at the time he pulled the trigger, the use of an ECD was perfectly valid.

                    Plus there's this:

                    http://www.policeone.com/police-trai...capture-errors

                    Note the reference to a lack of stress-based training.

                    Because of the age of the article, I'll add that the officer served 11 months, mostly under house arrest in a much less valid case (the guy he shot was handcuffed).
                    He has been charged.
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Prosecutors charged a white reserve sheriff's deputy with manslaughter Monday in the death of a black man who was fatally shot as he lay on the ground at the officer's feet.

                      The sheriff's office has said that Robert Bates, a 73-year-old insurance executive who was volunteering on an undercover operation in Tulsa, mistakenly pulled out his handgun instead of his stun gun and shot the suspect as he struggled with deputies.

                      Bates was charged with second-degree manslaughter involving "culpable negligence" for the April 2 death of Eric Harris, 44.

                      http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2015/04...laughter-video
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                        Prosecutors charged a white reserve sheriff's deputy with manslaughter Monday in the death of a black man who was fatally shot as he lay on the ground at the officer's feet.

                        The sheriff's office has said that Robert Bates, a 73-year-old insurance executive who was volunteering on an undercover operation in Tulsa, mistakenly pulled out his handgun instead of his stun gun and shot the suspect as he struggled with deputies.

                        Bates was charged with second-degree manslaughter involving "culpable negligence" for the April 2 death of Eric Harris, 44.

                        http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2015/04...laughter-video
                        Yeah, I posted that about twelve hours ago.

                        We already discussed this.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                          He has been charged.
                          Yeah. So?

                          This may be news to you, but he's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Assuming it goes that far-there's several steps between him and that point, and their charge is one that is particularly vulnerable to the evidence presented to date.

                          Contrary to Hollywood, being arrested is a long ways from anything.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Why was a 73 year old volunteer policeman involved in an undercover operation against a potentially violent suspect?

                            Shouldn't a 73 year old be doing a support role where he is unlikely to have to face a violent confrontation?

                            On the face of it, it looks like the officer made a mistake under stress in a situation that he should never have been in.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                              Like I said: you're docile. You toe the line. Its not a bad thing-the English certainly appreciate you!

                              You also compile crime rates differently than the USA, BTW.

                              I am very pleased that we execute people.

                              You're going to try to talk about intelligent voting when independence was on the ballot and you couldn't even muster a full turn-out?



                              Sure, take another hundred years. Sooner or later you'll get up the nerve.

                              Funny, when we left the Empire, we didn't have to ask anyone's permission.
                              Texas was in the British Empire was it

                              Btw there are guns in Northern Ireland, where there are Scottish settlers (Scots-Irish) and bombs too. While the Police are armed.

                              But like I said earlier go to a Rangers/Celtic match and say all that and see where it gets you

                              Btw most English taxpayers wish they would leave. They are tired of paying for them. While the idea of Sturgeon salivating about all the money she could get out of a propped up Labour Government feels many with horror
                              Last edited by History fan; 14 Apr 15, 23:58.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by the ace View Post
                                My bold.

                                Don't the, 'Scots,' in Texas vote Republican ? That's hardly a mark of intelligence. We don't execute anybody in Scotland, and our crime rates for last year are the lowest on record - I can't remember a police officer being injured, far less killed on duty here (there have been a handful of instances in England, with ten times the population).

                                .
                                http://www.spmt.org.uk/roll.htm

                                Looking down the list, the most recent Scottish police officer killed by a suspect was in 1994, before that one was killed in 1983. The rest seem to have died from accidents or natural causes. Both officers were stabbed.
                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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