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73 year old LEO mistakes pistol for a taser. You know the rest of the story.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Because you're docile.

    London tells you that can't own firearms, and you tug your forelock and submit.

    Tell an American he can't do something, and odds are he'll tell you to off and do it anyway.
    We don't need firearms, we have wangs.

    Seriously, it just isn't a part of our culture, by and large. In Scotland, if you have a grudge against someone, you'll go in with fists, boots and teeth, with maybe the odd knife, broken bottle, or blunt instrument. It's far more satisfying to kick someone's 'nads out of his ears than to put a bullet in him.


    Oh, and we aren't too worried about rules either.
    Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by the ace View Post
      We don't need firearms, we have wangs.

      Seriously, it just isn't a part of our culture, by and large. In Scotland, if you have a grudge against someone, you'll go in with fists, boots and teeth, with maybe the odd knife, broken bottle, or blunt instrument. It's far more satisfying to kick someone's 'nads out of his ears than to put a bullet in him.


      Oh, and we aren't too worried about rules either.
      Hell, you couldn't even vote your way to independence.

      It is a different culture, which was the point I was trying to make in response to your absurd suggestion about Use of Force restrictions. What works with the tame Scots will not suffice in the place to which Scotland's best and brightest emigrated. Here in Texas we execute people who kill police officers (the few who get taken alive, that is), but on the average an officer is shot at somewhere in the state every 70-odd hours. Fortunately, accuracy remains an issue for the bad guys.
      Last edited by Arnold J Rimmer; 13 Apr 15, 15:36.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        Hell, you couldn't even vote your way to independence.

        It is a different culture, which was the point I was trying to make in response to your absurd suggestion about Use of Force restrictions. What works with the tame Scots will not suffice in the place to which Scotland's best and brightest emigrated. Here in Texas we execute people who kill police officers (the few who get taken alive, that is), but on the average an officer is shot at somewhere in the state every 70-odd hours. Fortunately, accuracy remains an issue for the bad guys.
        Why are you pissing on people from other places while celebrating how often your men get shot at? Is there something in the water down your way?

        And I know you know this, but for the unenlightened: Texas was a sovereign state from (IIRC) 1836 until it begged to be allowed into the union. Then it tried to leave in 1860 and got its arse kicked for doing so.

        But, hey, keep pissing on the Scots who are making an effort to be who they are. You lot just talk about it and change side depending on the wind.

        But guns, **** yeah!
        Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

        That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by History fan View Post
          That's hard to avoid if you have a busted tail light i.e. If your black
          Easy fix.
          My worst jump story:
          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
          No lie.

          ~
          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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          • #50
            Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
            Easy fix.
            Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have Auto Zones in SC.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have Auto Zones in SC.
              Even for stolen cars.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #52
                We all know that Eric Harris was responsible for being in that situation. The world's most likely a better place without him.

                But that doesn't excuse the insanity of having someone that old performing that job. If it wasn't Harris, it would have been someone, or something else.

                No matter how sharp you think you are, no matter how good of shape you're in for that age, you aren't what you were. Act your age.
                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                  We all know that Eric Harris was responsible for being in that situation. The world's most likely a better place without him.

                  But that doesn't excuse the insanity of having someone that old performing that job. If it wasn't Harris, it would have been someone, or something else.

                  No matter how sharp you think you are, no matter how good of shape you're in for that age, you aren't what you were. Act your age.
                  Very true. I'm a lot younger than 73, and I've been off the street for over seven years.

                  Its a young man's game.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Arnold,

                    Just a question for you. Is there a national standard for training of police officers? I assume police academies are managed locally and trained to varying standards, which suggest the quality isn't uniform across the nation.

                    It's interesting to note that America is unique in that the police agencies are locally autonomous, not centrally controlled. Is that perceived as weakness or strength?
                    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                    "Aim small, miss small."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Michigan has statewide standards. I don't know how strict they are, though.
                      http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                        Arnold,

                        Just a question for you. Is there a national standard for training of police officers? I assume police academies are managed locally and trained to varying standards, which suggest the quality isn't uniform across the nation.

                        It's interesting to note that America is unique in that the police agencies are locally autonomous, not centrally controlled. Is that perceived as weakness or strength?
                        There is no national standard for training, licensing, etc. Its handled on a state by state basis.

                        IMO it is a huge strength. Somewhere between 93 and 95% of the police in America answer solely to the state or local governments (never both). This means that the police can never be used in a coup or other interdiction of the Bill of Rights. Even in what I call a 'SRV scenario' in which a President declares martial law, the local and state agencies remain autonomous.

                        Just like the three branches of government at the Federal level acting as checks and balances, the armed strength of the nation is split between Federal, state, and local control.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          AJ Rimmer makes good posts, but if I am correct he lives in Texas, this case happened in Oklahoma. I don't know if the man will face charges. But I do believe he will be defending himself in court, most likely civil case and even if he is found innocent the cost to defend himself will leave him broke.
                          The county should have never put him in the situation, so they will likely also be sued.
                          I know this sounds crazy to many of you, but here it goes, even if the dead men had a criminal record, even if they were suspects in a crime, they have rights.
                          Like it or not, that's the way it is.
                          As in the other case where a officer shot a man running away from him in the back, the man owed child support, he had some petty criminal record. He struggled with the officer, it appears he may have tried to take the officers taser away from the LEO.
                          None of these offensives are punishable by death. If there had been no shooting, the man would have been arrested within a short time and would today be out in bail, maybe facing 6 months down the road.
                          OTOH, it is so easy for us to see that on the video. The officer did not have that perceptive. That will be his defense. He could not take for granted that the perp had dropped the taser.
                          Two things going against him. 1, the man turned his back on him and therefore was not a threat to the officer. 2, the officer tampered with the evidence.
                          That is what we see as of now, evidence will come out and we should with hold judgement.
                          In the blink of an eye, life can turn on itself.
                          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by the ace View Post
                            We don't need firearms, we have wangs.

                            Seriously, it just isn't a part of our culture, by and large. In Scotland, if you have a grudge against someone, you'll go in with fists, boots and teeth, with maybe the odd knife, broken bottle, or blunt instrument. It's far more satisfying to kick someone's 'nads out of his ears than to put a bullet in him.


                            Oh, and we aren't too worried about rules either.
                            No man provokes me with impunity. - Scottish motto.

                            Also, Say No to Knife Crime

                            Which in point of fact proves something.

                            Here in America we have gun free zones and people saying that if you own a gun you're more likely to be a victim of some form of gun violence. In the UK it's say no to knives and...



                            The moral of the story: you can never legislate a society into being safe. Humans are creative and always find a way to kill.

                            But I digress from the topic.

                            This buffoon should face manslaughter charges.
                            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              AJ Rimmer makes good posts, but if I am correct he lives in Texas, this case happened in Oklahoma. I don't know if the man will face charges. But I do believe he will be defending himself in court, most likely civil case and even if he is found innocent the cost to defend himself will leave him broke.
                              Not really. Its in the county's interest to defend him, and in OK, like Texas, there are organizations which provide officers with legal defense for just these sorts of situations. According to one of the articles I read, no charges are pending, although he'll undoubtedly face a Grand Jury.

                              Based on the video's audio, human error should suffice to keep him out of criminal court.

                              He might get named in the civil suit directed against the county, but odds are it won't cost him a dime no matter how it goes.

                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              The county should have never put him in the situation, so they will likely also be sued.
                              I know this sounds crazy to many of you, but here it goes, even if the dead men had a criminal record, even if they were suspects in a crime, they have rights.
                              Like it or not, that's the way it is.
                              Nobody says he doesn't.

                              But that's also immaterial.

                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              As in the other case where a officer shot a man running away from him in the back, the man owed child support, he had some petty criminal record. He struggled with the officer, it appears he may have tried to take the officers taser away from the LEO.
                              None of these offensives are punishable by death. If there had been no shooting, the man would have been arrested within a short time and would today be out in bail, maybe facing 6 months down the road.
                              Or, he could have carjacked a woman, hurling her out onto the roadway, and drove off with her two small children in the car, eventually abandoning the toddlers in a remote spot where they die of exposure.

                              You can't predict the future actions of a man who just committed two violent crimes, one a high felony.

                              The law says the police have a responsible to take action. There's no waffling in that about '"X or Y is not punishable by death". That is a non-point.

                              Whether there was grounds to shoot him will be for the courts to work out.


                              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                              OTOH, it is so easy for us to see that on the video. The officer did not have that perceptive. That will be his defense. He could not take for granted that the perp had dropped the taser.
                              Two things going against him. 1, the man turned his back on him and therefore was not a threat to the officer. 2, the officer tampered with the evidence.
                              That is what we see as of now, evidence will come out and we should with hold judgement.
                              In the blink of an eye, life can turn on itself.
                              And again: Garner will determine whether being shot in the back was an issue. Point #1 is still up in the air. Its a long shot at this point, but there is a lot of ground to be covered between now and the end game.

                              As to #2, its immaterial. If Garner allows the shoot, moving something won't matter, and if it doesn't, its a moot point. Regardless of the video, you don't as of this time have a culpable mental state to go with tampering under the OK statute.

                              One thing that may work in the officer's favor is the speed with which he was indicted. If, as Tac has noted, further study of the various videos, the timeline, and above all the entry wound placement in the body, there may be more wriggle room in the circumstances than the media is portraying, not only will the officer walk, but he will have a excellent chance to sue his former agency.

                              After all, the media's track record in these incidents has been utterly terrible. Zimmerman, Ferguson, even going back to Diallo (sp) they are quick to present a fiction, only to run afoul of the courts.

                              Time will tell.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                                Hell, you couldn't even vote your way to independence.

                                It is a different culture, which was the point I was trying to make in response to your absurd suggestion about Use of Force restrictions. What works with the tame Scots will not suffice in the place to which Scotland's best and brightest emigrated. Here in Texas we execute people who kill police officers (the few who get taken alive, that is), but on the average an officer is shot at somewhere in the state every 70-odd hours. Fortunately, accuracy remains an issue for the bad guys.
                                My bold.

                                Don't the, 'Scots,' in Texas vote Republican ? That's hardly a mark of intelligence. We don't execute anybody in Scotland, and our crime rates for last year are the lowest on record - I can't remember a police officer being injured, far less killed on duty here (there have been a handful of instances in England, with ten times the population).

                                The diaspora was pretty much forced, and my ancestors arrived in Scotland about the same time theirs arrived in the US, I know calling myself Irish would be a lie.

                                I voted, 'Yes,' to independence, and the Scottish National Party has quadrupled its membership since the referendum and is set to give Labour a royal pasting in the upcoming General Election (David Cameron's Conservatives are irrelevant, and the Lib/Dems are dead men walking).

                                There'll be another indyref at some point, just not yet - support continues to grow.
                                Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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