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America Moving Towards Totalitarianism

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
    The issue of States' Rights.

    I've brought this up also. The idiot Confederacy tied slavery to the masthead of States' Rights and the issue of how much local sovereignty each state should have was forever tainted because of it. It's the case of a good idea being soured by selfish people who abused the liberty.
    I don't see how you can accuse the South of "the slavery issue" when Lincoln supported it himself where he felt it aided his cause, and said as much himself.


    "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; "
    The issue was States rights vs Federal power regardless of the cause linked to it by Lincoln for political reasons. Lincoln wanted Federal supremacy and the South wanted their individual rights. His problem was that he couldn't sell a civil war based on Federalism over states' rights. In this respect, I believe Lincoln was dead wrong, and history has supported that contention. Today, one of the primary problems facing America is the overwhelming Federal government which now dictates every facet of everyone's life from cradle to grave.

    Lincoln is the father of the Bureaucratic Juggernaut.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
      WHAT good things? This could get very interesting.
      Weaker central government, free market, no income tax, no national bank, etc...
      I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
      --Salmon P. Chase

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
        The issue of States' Rights.

        I've brought this up also. The idiot Confederacy tied slavery to the masthead of States' Rights and the issue of how much local sovereignty each state should have was forever tainted because of it. It's the case of a good idea being soured by selfish people who abused the liberty.
        States Rights was more than just about slavery to Southerners. Putting the emphasis on slavery as the major cause was done by the victors. Making the South into an evil entity would make it easier to crush Southern ideas such as states rights. To the south slavery was simply just inherently coupled with slavery. It was the victors who tied slavery to the masthead of states rights. Southerners knew this would happen. Patrick Cleburne prophesied it in 1863. Its why you see the formation of the "Lost Cause" which tried to downplay slavery as much as possible.
        I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
        --Salmon P. Chase

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I don't see how you can accuse the South of "the slavery issue" when Lincoln supported it himself where he felt it aided his cause, and said as much himself.



          The issue was States rights vs Federal power regardless of the cause linked to it by Lincoln for political reasons. Lincoln wanted Federal supremacy and the South wanted their individual rights. His problem was that he couldn't sell a civil war based on Federalism over states' rights. In this respect, I believe Lincoln was dead wrong, and history has supported that contention. Today, one of the primary problems facing America is the overwhelming Federal government which now dictates every facet of everyone's life from cradle to grave.

          Lincoln is the father of the Bureaucratic Juggernaut.
          I agree with your summary of Lincoln, but make no mistake, Lincoln was morally and politically opposed to slavery. One member here calls him a "closet radical" and I'm inclined to agree. He was brilliant. He knew what to say and when to say it. Some historians have said he could say one thing and make it mean several things to different people. As much as I have a dislike for Lincoln I believe he did have a moral aversion to slavery and wanted to see it eradicated.
          I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
          --Salmon P. Chase

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            He's probably referring to to concepts such as States' rights.
            The intention of Americans at large appears now to be what it was always in danger of becoming: an intention of being infinitely progressive...the South was defeated by the Union on the battlefield with remarkable decisiveness, and the two consequences have been dire: the Southern tradition was physically impaired, and has ever since been unable to offer an attractive example of its philosophy in action; and the American progressive principle has developed into a pure industrialism without any check from a Southern minority whose voiced ceased to make itself heard.
            --John Crowe Ransom 1930
            I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
            --Salmon P. Chase

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