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Karl Rove piece in the WSJ. "Myth of the Stay at home Conservative"

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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    In oder to win in 2016, the GOP has to have a candidate who will ... draw moderates and liberals toward small-r republican ideas, Ted Cruz can do all of them.
    No he can't, and won't.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
      Sorry, Ronald Reagan does not match up at all. Amnesty for Illegals, Social Security Taxes raised. Nuclear deals with the Soviets, pointless bombing attacks in retaliation to terror attacks. "Cutting and running" from Lebanon. Only thing he matches up with is on defense spending.

      Please show us the big roll back of the administrative state he presided over.
      You're once again confusing governing with campaigning.
      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        As President he transferred weapons to Iran... Yet some 'weakness' in Jimmy Carter magically allowed the Revolution in Iran to happen. Please explain how if Reagan had been in office in that time he would have stopped it....

        "Wait, the US President is Ronald Reagan.... Let's stick with the Shah......"

        Got it.
        Red herring fallacies. The issue is winning the election, not the realities of governing
        Last edited by The Doctor; 03 Apr 15, 10:26.
        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
          Red herring fallacies. The issue is winning the election, not the realities of governing
          No the issue morphed into Reagan and the GOP of that era not fitting the mold of today's GOP Base. When you brought Reagan's victories into the thread you brought how he covered and how he would be perceived by todays base into the discussion.

          Anyone that can effectively excite the GOP base is going to have a lot of trouble bringing over enough from the middle to win. Reagan did it because his views where not that far from that era's middle. Sen Cruz has no chance to do that. Gov Walker and Sen Rubio, might, if they don't face the likes of Sen Cruz and some other long shots in a drawn out Primary season. That type of primary is what cost Mr Romney the middles support.

          "I'm Severely Conservative"....
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
            You're once again confusing governing with campaigning.
            He was re-elected after 4 years of governing. George H. W. Bush's first term, Reagan's third term as you call it, happened after eight years of governing.
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              He was re-elected after 4 years of governing. George H. W. Bush's first term, Reagan's third term as you call it, happened after eight years of governing.
              He didn’t win in landslides in 1980 and 1984 based on promises to backtrack on a few campaign promises in order to compromise win Democrats. Nor did Bush win in 1988 because he was just kidding when he said, "Read my lips..."

              Reagan campaigned as an unapologetic conservative (classical liberal), intent on restoring the Federal government to its intended republican nature.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                No the issue morphed into Reagan and the GOP of that era not fitting the mold of today's GOP Base. When you brought Reagan's victories into the thread you brought how he covered and how he would be perceived by todays base into the discussion.

                Anyone that can effectively excite the GOP base is going to have a lot of trouble bringing over enough from the middle to win. Reagan did it because his views where not that far from that era's middle. Sen Cruz has no chance to do that. Gov Walker and Sen Rubio, might, if they don't face the likes of Sen Cruz and some other long shots in a drawn out Primary season. That type of primary is what cost Mr Romney the middles support.

                "I'm Severely Conservative"....
                Karl Rove's strawman was in response to Cruz's accurate statement about "stay at home conservatives" and the need for a genuinely conservative candidate.
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                  Karl Rove's strawman was in response to Cruz's accurate statement about "stay at home conservatives" and the need for a genuinely conservative candidate.
                  And you dispute Mr Rove's opinion by demonstrating Mr Reagan's conservative credentials and how he proves your point. When the fact is Mr Reagan's conservative credentials no longer match todays GOP base. Any candidate, like Sen Cruz, that plays heavily to the base will not be able to pull in the moderates like Mr Reagan did. He was not that far apart from the middle, Sen Cruz is. Numbers will not work. He will, if he is the nominee, give the Dems the third three term crack in the WH we've had in the last 116 years.

                  Which is why I agree with you and not Mr Rove. The GOP NEEDS to nominate someone like Sen Cruz. I hope they do, even though it gives the Dems the WH again.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                    He didn’t win in landslides in 1980 and 1984 based on promises to backtrack on a few campaign promises in order to compromise win Democrats. Nor did Bush win in 1988 because he was just kidding when he said, "Read my lips..."

                    Reagan campaigned as an unapologetic conservative (classical liberal), intent on restoring the Federal government to its intended republican nature.
                    He won the moderates because they knew at the time that the GOP WOULD compromise, both parties did at the time. He won the moderates because his views were not that far from the moderates that make up the 'inside' fringes of both parties and the moderate non party members.
                    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                    “To talk of many things:
                    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                    Of cabbages—and kings—
                    And why the sea is boiling hot—
                    And whether pigs have wings.”
                    ― Lewis Carroll

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                      And you dispute Mr Rove's opinion by demonstrating Mr Reagan's conservative credentials and how he proves your point. When the fact is Mr Reagan's conservative credentials no longer match todays GOP base. Any candidate, like Sen Cruz, that plays heavily to the base will not be able to pull in the moderates like Mr Reagan did. He was not that far apart from the middle, Sen Cruz is. Numbers will not work. He will, if he is the nominee, give the Dems the third three term crack in the WH we've had in the last 116 years.

                      Which is why I agree with you and not Mr Rove. The GOP NEEDS to nominate someone like Sen Cruz. I hope they do, even though it gives the Dems the WH again.
                      Reagan’s campaign platform is almost indistinguishable from Cruz's positions on the issues.
                      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        He won the moderates because they knew at the time that the GOP WOULD compromise, both parties did at the time. He won the moderates because his views were not that far from the moderates that make up the 'inside' fringes of both parties and the moderate non party members.
                        100% nonsense. No one wins in landslides because the mushy middle assumes that the candidate will do the opposite of what they promise to do.

                        Candidates win in landslides by drawing the mushy middle and some of the opposition toward their positions.
                        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                          100% nonsense. No one wins in landslides because the mushy middle assumes that the candidate will do the opposite of what they promise to do.

                          Candidates win in landslides by drawing the mushy middle and some of the opposition toward their positions.
                          Doing the opposite has nothing to do with it. The 'mushie middle" opinions on most stuff we're not that far from Mr Reagan's ideas. His CA record showed that he was a compromiser and knew how to cut a deal. He ran on his record, not just promises. That does not hold true now, a GOP candidate that had his record in CA would not even think of running for President.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                            Reagan’s campaign platform is almost indistinguishable from Cruz's positions on the issues.
                            His record and history are not. Do you think the voters did not know Mr Reagan's record? Really? Your looking at rhetoric and thinking it was reality.
                            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                            “To talk of many things:
                            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                            Of cabbages—and kings—
                            And why the sea is boiling hot—
                            And whether pigs have wings.”
                            ― Lewis Carroll

                            Comment

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