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  • Originally posted by Savez View Post
    Why not? You don't think it was the hard right "silent majority" that got him elected?
    Trump is all over the place in his positions. Often with more than one position on the same issue.

    What got Trump elected was a number of factors. I'll give a couple.

    Black Americans did not turn out for him like they did for President Obama.

    A large number of people, myself included, did not like him but voted for him to keep Mrs. Clinton out.

    And no I have no problem with a women president. I do have a number of problems with a Mrs. Clinton, non of which have to do with her gender.
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
    Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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    • Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
      Trump is all over the place in his positions. Often with more than one position on the same issue.

      What got Trump elected was a number of factors. I'll give a couple.

      Black Americans did not turn out for him like they did for President Obama.

      A large number of people, myself included, did not like him but voted for him to keep Mrs. Clinton out.
      The over riding factor being that the working class "Reagan Democrats) turned against Clinton, hence the loss of "Blue States" Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

      Tuebor

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      • Question is would almost anyone running against Clinton have won? Did Trump win because of who he is or did he win because of how bad Clinton was?
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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        • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          Question is would almost anyone running against Clinton have won? Did Trump win because of who he is or did he win because of how bad Clinton was?
          There was a lot of data in the early months suggesting just about any major GOP contender would have trounced her. Now it is a what if, but when one looks at all the dirt and scum clinging to Clinton, and measures that up against a Republican candidate who didn't brag about groping women and getting into fights with a veteran's family, then one could see a strong sense in the idea that they would have won as well, but by an even greater margin (instead of it being as close as it was).

          Trump was aided immeasurably by how terrible and tainted Clinton was, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean dismissing his own talents either. It will take time to digest, but how much Trump was directly responsible for flipping the rust-belt states in his favor will be debated for a long time yet.

          We will need a second election to likely measure just how big an impact Trump was himself on this election.

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          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
            Question is would almost anyone running against Clinton have won? Did Trump win because of who he is or did he win because of how bad Clinton was?
            Trump 2016 numbers would have defeated Obama 2012.

            What they are not telling you:

            Trump had more woman support than Romney 2012
            Trump had more Hispanic support than Romney 2012
            Trump had more Black support than Romney 2012.

            Media bullshit is a cancer.
            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

            Prayers.

            BoRG

            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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            • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
              Trump 2016 numbers would have defeated Obama 2012.

              What they are not telling you:

              Trump had more woman support than Romney 2012
              Trump had more Hispanic support than Romney 2012
              Trump had more Black support than Romney 2012.

              Media bullshit is a cancer.
              Could you provide some sources for those?

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              • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                Could you provide some sources for those?
                They're there. Just gotta open your eyes and accept it with an open mind. I'm not gonna waste my time so I'll just give you one for starters.

                http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/201...-polls-n681386
                Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                Prayers.

                BoRG

                http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                  They're there. Just gotta open your eyes and accept it with an open mind. I'm not gonna waste my time so I'll just give you one for starters.

                  http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/201...-polls-n681386
                  The reason I asked is because I've seen few documented explorations of demographics so soon after the race. And considering how NBC's polls were off the mark regarding Trump and Hillary, I'm not entirely enthused by their data sets.

                  So lets also look at this NY Times piece on their exit polls.

                  Black
                  • 88% Clinton
                  • 8% Trump
                  • +7% from 2012.


                  Alright, that certainly puts the numbers into context.

                  As from your source:
                  The first African American president carried 93 percent of the black vote against Romney. Clinton came in five points below him against Trump. With Hispanics, Obama garnered 71 percent support in 2012. Clinton on Tuesday claimed 65 percent.

                  But that doesn't mean that Romney, equipped with Trump's numbers, would have defeated Obama in 2012, as you said earlier.
                  Romney, 2012: 60,933,504.
                  Trump, 2016: 60,175,470.

                  Trump's figures were even lower than Romney's were. What served the GOP well was how badly the number of Democratic voters dropped between 2012 and 2016:
                  Obama, 2012: 65,915,795.
                  Clinton, 2016: 60,751,170.

                  So no, Romney would still have lost if he had done as well as Trump had this week, because Obama had a 5 million lead over Romney in total votes.

                  What Trump did was earn a greater share of a smaller figure as there were 5 million fewer democratic voters in 2016. And he still did worse than Bush did in 2004:

                  African-American, 2004
                  88
                  11

                  Hispanic, 2004
                  53
                  44

                  Asian, 2004
                  56
                  43

                  This brings to mind that old saying about there being lies, damn lies, and statistics: while Trump did better than other Republicans had against Obama in attracting non-white voters, he also did worse than Bush did before them. So if you average out the percentages of non-white voters the GOP candidate has received over the past 20 years, it looks like Trump's performance was (gasp) fairly average for a Republican.

                  Cue liberal panicking and denial because the "arch-racist hatemonger" Trump still did okay for a Republican.

                  What is holding back any further commentary is that I'm lacking the total numbers who voted for each demographic as well. For example, Trump's could have attracted just as many black voters as Romney did in 2012, it was just that Clinton lost so many that it made the relative percentages jump. (Not saying that is the case, just pointing out that without knowing how much of a percentage they represented of the electorate, we can't come to certain conclusions at all).

                  On the surface though, one important number to watch is how black voting increased during Obama's reign. In 2004, they represented just 11% of voters; in 2008 and 2012, they represented 13%. And in 2004? You guessed it: 11%. How much do you want to bet that the relative number of black voters decreased between the 2012 and 2016 elections?
                  Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 11 Nov 16, 19:50.

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