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Florida Town Waging War On Churches

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Jannie View Post
    What--are they just now getting around to making the church comply with the Americans With Disabilities Act? Around 20 years ago I attended a church that was found in non-compliance (they had a balcony reachable only with stairs) and they had to put in an elevator or close off the balcony. They did put in an elevator.

    A church may not have to pay taxes here but the various governments can make them jump through hoops in other ways.

    Andrewza, don’t churches in South Africa get a free pass on taxes?
    Personally, I find 80 to 90% of the ADA to be a pedantic exercise in stupidity.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by andrewza View Post
      I am against it though.
      Adrewza, I am too.

      I love it that the Republican governor of the State of Maine wants to tax non-profits in his state. I think he should include churches in that list—but it’s a start on some of the free-loading social organizations. Sometimes I do totally agree with Republican positions. That is why I am an Independent.
      AUGUSTA, MAINE — Nonprofit organizations across the country are closely watching Maine as it considers becoming the first state to impose property taxes on hospitals, private colleges and summer camps under a plan being pushed by Gov. Paul LePage.

      The Republican's contentious proposal has sparked a fiery debate in Maine over what impact nonprofits have on their communities and whether they should have to shoulder the costs for municipal services they consume. It's also raising questions about whether other states will follow suit if LePage's effort is successful.
      http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2015/03...nprofit-groups
      Homo homini lupus

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Jannie View Post
        Adrewza, I am too.

        I love it that the Republican governor of the State of Maine wants to tax non-profits in his state. I think he should include churches in that list—but it’s a start on some of the free-loading social organizations. Sometimes I do totally agree with Republican positions. That is why I am an Independent.

        http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2015/03...nprofit-groups
        You want an even greater strain on hospitals than already exists?

        Nonprofits are tax exempt for a reason. Raising taxes won't swell the government coffers, it'll just put nonprofits out of business or drive them to the digital only realm. Summer camps will cease to operate or at least be unable to provide services to low income families since they are seasonal, hospital care will get even worse, and churches will revert to home operation. The liberal concept of the shake down never works as planned. And I wouldn't classify a government cash grab as Republican. Sounds RINO to me.

        If anything, property taxes should be abolished altogether. That's one of our contributing factors to poverty: a tax on existing. Hurts business and the unemployed.
        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
          You want an even greater strain on hospitals than already exists?

          Nonprofits are tax exempt for a reason. Raising taxes won't swell the government coffers, it'll just put nonprofits out of business or drive them to the digital only realm. Summer camps will cease to operate or at least be unable to provide services to low income families since they are seasonal, hospital care will get even worse, and churches will revert to home operation. The liberal concept of the shake down never works as planned. And I wouldn't classify a government cash grab as Republican. Sounds RINO to me.

          If anything, property taxes should be abolished altogether. That's one of our contributing factors to poverty: a tax on existing. Hurts business and the unemployed.
          In the course of imposing real estate taxes on non-profits, Le Page would reduce Maine’s income tax.
          LePage wants to lower the income tax from 7.95 percent to 5.75 percent and increase the sales tax from 5 percent to 6.5 percent while extending it to new goods and services. The state would no longer share about $60 million in revenue with local governments, but it would make up for at least some of that lost revenue by requiring cities and towns to levy property taxes on 50 percent of the value of nonprofit-owned real estate valued at more than $500,000.

          According to Maine Department of Revenue records from 2013, about $5.6 billion worth of property is tax exempt in the state. Of that, about $1 billion is owned by churches and parsonages, which would not be taxed under LePage’s plan. That leaves $4.6 billion worth of property that would be taxable.
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...ushpmg00000013

          LePage is regarded as an extreme Tea Party Conservative in some places.
          But in that year an avenging populism swept through the state. The Republican Party that used to elect Olympia Snowe and William Cohen practically burned its old platform and replaced it with another that calls for the abolition of the Department of Education and the Federal Reserve System, adhering to the principles of Austrian economics, and, rather darkly, the prosecution of those perpetrating “the global warming myth.”

          At the head of this revolution is a new governor who has compared the IRS to the Gestapo, said that Obama could go to hell, and pointed to the press box during his inaugural address warning, “You’re on notice.” Paul LePage is one of the most intriguing and infuriating men in American politics. Bumptious, dogged, quick to anger, openly resentful of Maine’s political class, and witty in a down-home way, he is an authentic specimen of the movement. And his governorship is turning into a fascinating test case, revealing the limits and the possibilities of the Tea Party populism he champions.
          http://www.theamericanconservative.c...t-the-machine/

          So is what LePage doing RINOism or Tea Party populism?

          A lot of Republican politics is based on transferring taxes to those least able to fight back and least able to afford it. I personally like the idea of reducing my state’s income tax (as has been done) and forcing other entities to make up the difference (as has not been done). LePage’s idea appeals to me more than what has been done in Missouri.

          I think that as state incomes are reduced a lot of Governors are realizing that they need to make up that loss somehow. Reducing services to a state’s residents are just not producing the results that they have desired. This is the reason that legalizing marijuana and taxing it has proved to be a popular idea and why 30 or 40 years ago legalizing lotteries was popular so that states could take a share.
          Homo homini lupus

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jannie View Post
            In the course of imposing real estate taxes on non-profits, Le Page would reduce Maine’s income tax.
            The benefits of which would be offset by higher medical bills and/or poorer quality of care caused by those hospitals having to fork over large sums of money. Don't have kids or get old.

            Originally posted by Jannie View Post
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...ushpmg00000013

            LePage is regarded as an extreme Tea Party Conservative in some places.

            http://www.theamericanconservative.c...t-the-machine/

            So is what LePage doing RINOism or Tea Party populism?
            He may have the rhetoric but in this case it's definitely RINOism. LePage is engaging in the classic error of short sighted thinking. He's trumpeting the short term gains (lower income taxes) while bumbling over the long term consequences (damaged nonprofits that provide civil services, lack of any real increase in state budget). Ironically, the only way you could tax non profits and get any gain would be by not lowering the income tax.

            Originally posted by Jannie View Post
            A lot of Republican politics is based on transferring taxes to those least able to fight back and least able to afford it.
            Incorrect. Conservative political principles revolve around reducing taxation and the impact of the government on everyone.

            Originally posted by Jannie View Post
            I personally like the idea of reducing my state’s income tax (as has been done) and forcing other entities to make up the difference (as has not been done). LePage’s idea appeals to me more than what has been done in Missouri.
            I wouldn't mind seeing lower income taxes too. But nonprofits are tax exempt for a reason. Shaking them down for money won't get you much and will hurt their ability to help you. If you swipe the offering plate money of a small town church, you're still going to have crappy sidewalks. Then the small town church closes and you just lost the income you so recently gained. Back to square one. In the mean time, have fun waiting for your turn to get a much needed MRI. The hospital you just went after had to make cuts so they could stay afloat.

            Originally posted by Jannie View Post
            I think that as state incomes are reduced a lot of Governors are realizing that they need to make up that loss somehow. Reducing services to a state’s residents are just not producing the results that they have desired. This is the reason that legalizing marijuana and taxing it has proved to be a popular idea and why 30 or 40 years ago legalizing lotteries was popular so that states could take a share.
            Eliminating waste is the best way to solve that problem. Unfortunately, politicians love their waste.
            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
              Form what I read somewhere else - unfortunately I don't remember where the link is now - the town admin only recently took over enforcement of some coding issues from the fire department. Hence, confusion over what exactly they were enforcing. However, as an outside observer, I would say if the town admin went overboard with sending someone in to observe the church meeting and, I presume, count the number of occupants for fire regulations, the church equally went overboard with claims about a Soviet style attack on the church. Equal amounts of buffoonery on both sides.
              As is so often the case, morons congregate on either side as the rhetoric is ratchet up. Soon it will be claimed it's a group of Neo-Nazi zealots are resisting a malignant group of Marxist-Leninist bureaucrats.

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