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DOJ Investigation Declares Ferguson PD "Racist"

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  • #16
    It is my understanding that the Ferguson PD is 99% white officers. There are 50+ white officers and only 3 black officers. Instead of disbanding the entire police dept, the DOJ should recommend hiring more black and minority officers. Transfer some of the white officers to other cities nearby.
    It would also be ideal to assign a black police chief. That should simmer them down.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      And ironically the USSC ruled back in the 90s that simple statistics cannot establish bias.

      Funny how the DoJ never comments on the fact that the Federal Courts, like all state courts, send a disproportionate number of black males to prison. Or that black males go to prison at higher rates on first offenses. Or serve longer sentences on the average.

      If numbers can prove racism, DoJ is at the head of the line.

      I get so tired of social ills being dumped off on the police or the courts.

      Here's another nugget of mine.

      I don't think the entire Ferguson PD is racist. There may be some officers who are but not all of them. Some who have lived on Ferguson since the 70's resent the demographics shifting. In the 70's Ferguson was 99% white and 1% black. Looking at the 2010 census findings, it changed dramatically, 67.4% black to 29.3 white.

      The police are put in a hard spot when they work in a city that is now mostly black and most crimes are committed by blacks. If a victim gives descriptions of suspects who are black, that's who the police will closely monitor. This is considered Police Investigation-101, not racial profiling.

      Comment


      • #18
        I do live in one county over and know some ladies who live in the Ferguson area (one of them is now planning to leave due a financial windfall) not that it makes me an expert but I am a tad closer than most of you.

        The St Louis Post Dispatch has been running articles about the situation for the past few days. One of the big issues is that the Police were picking on black people for various traffic violations (including walking in the street) and that they run those folks through the municipal court system to get fines out of them to help pay for the cost running the city. This is par for the course in most of the St. Louis area. This sort of issue involving citizens (black or white) of just about any municipality is common fodder on the local news. Traffic radar and cameras are hated here and people fight their use all the time. (My town has never had cameras but the next town over has and the citizens took their town to court and now (at present) they don’t have cameras on intersections. A section of an urban interstate in St Louis County is videoed all the time in one municipality and non-citizens consider that they are victimized when they are ticketed in the low mileage speed zone that runs for less than a mile.

        In Ferguson it is the blacks getting it in the neck because they are the majority population.

        However the Ferguson Police Chief was a noticeable obvious idiot when he first started talking during the Michael Brown crisis (he is a man who truly rose to the level of his incompetence, in my judgment). They say that the Ferguson Police Force lacked black policemen—I would guess that man is the reason. We have black officers out here in my town and we don't have a very big black population so I am not even sure that the issue is the availability of good candidates for the force or that we seem to have a competent Police Chief and our officers are paid a decent wage. I’d say that you have to be a rather poor candidate for the police force to work in Ferguson force (white or black), not to be too judgmental.

        If Ferguson loses its police force it’s not like it will be without policing—the county will come in to do the police work and I imagine the State Highway Patrol will be more available also. For major crime, like murder, there is a combined investigative force made up of county officers and detectives from surrounding departments. We’ve had that for years in our area. I think it may be even intra-county as well.

        Comments about the competency of Pres Obama and other blacks because of race and or purported religion is common on many social media outlets including right here. I think racial prejudice is deeply ingrained here in the US and will likely take many, many years to root out. I think it will have to be my great grandchildren who put an end to it, if then. But my grandkids are way more tolerant than most of my generation for sure. In my lifetime I have seen a lot of virulent racism go away, so I can say that things are much better than 50 years ago.

        The problem with Ferguson is that it had the DOJ’s attention drawn to it by the rioting so in one way the black folks have won with their acting out. Will this sort of thing work again? Will it cause more rioting somewhere else? Or will some egregious act by some cop or idiot mayor or police chief cause another act-up by black folks and focus a spotlight on institutional racism.

        I think acting out does pay. It's won big victories for the LGBT community and certainly draws attention to institutional racism.
        Homo homini lupus

        Comment


        • #19
          You could find racism in any organization if you look hard enough. Racism would diminish if people would quit being so sensitive about it and quit playing the victims. Race baiters are not helping, neither is the clown we call our president. Every race has stereotypes and most are funny. Embrace it. Stop the hypersensitivity.
          “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
          --Salmon P. Chase

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Percy Coburg View Post
            It is my understanding that the Ferguson PD is 99% white officers. There are 50+ white officers and only 3 black officers. Instead of disbanding the entire police dept, the DOJ should recommend hiring more black and minority officers. Transfer some of the white officers to other cities nearby.
            It would also be ideal to assign a black police chief. That should simmer them down.

            Just my 2 cents.
            You can't 'transfer' officers between cities. Each police department in the USA is an autonomous entity.

            Nor can a chief be 'assigned', he's hired by the city itself.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              You can't 'transfer' officers between cities. Each police department in the USA is an autonomous entity.

              Nor can a chief be 'assigned', he's hired by the city itself.
              The Major Case Squad of Greater St. Louis was formed in 1965 and is a multi-departmental unit charged with investigating major crimes in six Missouri and four Illinois counties. The squad brings together specially trained, and highly experienced investigators and averages an 80% clearance rate.
              http://www.ask.com/wiki/Major_Case_S...apn&ap=ask.com

              They actually work in two states!

              When the Ferguson riots were in full force—they were bringing in police from our county to help out and some EMS people.

              The County Police are like the sheriff’s Department in other places. Our county just changed over from a Sheriff’s Department to a County Police Department. I believe they are answerable to the County Council rather than to an elected Sheriff. But St. Louis County Police has been active for a long time.

              Our county, St. Charles County, sent its SWAT team to the Ferguson riots in St Louis County and they got in trouble with Al Jazera journalists. There is a lot of cross border stuff goes on out here to help other departments. Also Fire Departments from other municipalities will help each other out as well.

              http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local...-gas/14042747/

              In rural areas where police coverage is skimpy, the State Highway Patrol can be called in for extra coverage, and even Game Wardens. Forensic work is often done by the State Highway Patrol, if I am not mistaken.

              You folks out there where you are at must be terribly territorial.

              If the Ferguson Police Department was deactivated, and I have seen that mentioned as a possibility, I am pretty sure some sort of police protection would be pieced together.
              Last edited by Jannie; 05 Mar 15, 15:53.
              Homo homini lupus

              Comment


              • #22
                Hell of a way to run a nation...
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well, I am very pleased to see that other “big-time” sources agree with my little old opinion about the issues in Ferguson. If our towns and cities cannot get enough money out of sales taxes and real estate taxes they will get it how they can.
                  The judge in Ferguson, Missouri, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and colleagues while inflicting a punishing regime of fines and fees on the city’s residents, also owes more than $170,000 in unpaid taxes.
                  […]
                  Brockmeyer, 70, was this week singled out by Department of Justice investigators as being a driving force behind Ferguson’s strategy of using its municipal court to aggressively generate revenues. The policy has been blamed for a breakdown in relations between the city’s overwhelmingly white authorities and residents, two-thirds of whom are African American.
                  Investigators found Brockmeyer had boasted of creating a range of new court fees, “many of which are widely considered abusive and may be unlawful”. A city councilman opposing the judge’s reappointment was warned “switching judges would/could lead to loss of revenue”.
                  http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ald-brockmeyer
                  But what the material in the report reveals is less a culture of racial animus than one of predatory government: “Ferguson’s law enforcement practices,” states the report, “are shaped by the City’s focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs.” In the interest of expanding its treasury, Ferguson has employed its police department — 58 officers, policing a town of 21,000 — as an enforcer of the myriad municipal regulations that, rigorously enforced, nickel-and-dime the citizenry to the local government’s benefit. This is the injustice on which the Justice Department has stumbled, which helps to explain the city’s racial tensions — and which merits urgent correction.

                  In 2010, the city’s finance director encouraged Ferguson police chief Thomas Jackson to “ramp up” ticket-writing to help mitigate an anticipated sales-tax shortfall. Not only did citations increase, but so did the issuance of “companion charges” — for example, charges for speeding and failure to maintain a single lane, to accompany DWI charges. One stop can yield six or eight citations, and officers have been known to compete to set single-stop records. Indeed, within Ferguson Police Department, because opportunities for promotion have been tied to “productivity” — that is, enthusiasm for ticket-writing — officers have perverse incentives to issue citations, and in concert with police and prosecutors, municipal courts regularly enforce the payment of fines in a way that compounds what a single defendant owes. The report recounts the case of a woman for whom a single 2007 parking infraction — two citations; penalty: $151 plus fees — has led to multiple arrests, jail time, and more than $1,000 in additional fines, half of which she has yet to pay.
                  Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ism-ian-tuttle
                  Homo homini lupus

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Just announced on local news that the Ferguson Municipal Court has been dissolved and that the St. Louis County Court will be taking over the court's business.

                    The Governor of Missouri also announced that he will be looking at Municipal Court Reform all over the state.
                    Homo homini lupus

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                      There were some what I would say are Anti American comments being made by so called Police officers.

                      In its investigation of the Ferguson, Mo., Police Department, the Justice Department said it found "direct evidence of racial bias" in e-mails from and interviews with "influential Ferguson decision makers," including police commanders and court supervisors, all of whom are current employees.

                      Several officials "expressed discriminatory views and intolerance with regard to race, religion, and national origin," the report concluded. It described the communications as "unequivocally derogatory, dehumanizing, and demonstrative of impermissible bias."


                      The Justice Department cited the following e-mails as "illustrative":


                      • A November 2008 e-mail stated that President Obama would not be president for very long because "what black man holds a steady job for four years."

                      • A March 2010 e-mail mocked African Americans through speech and familial stereotypes, using a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: "I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!"

                      • An April 2011 e-mail depicted Obama as a chimpanzee.

                      • A May 2011 e-mail stated: "An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, 'Crimestoppers.'"


                      Officials sent the e-mails from their city accounts "almost without exception" and apparently during work hours. Investigators found no evidence that anyone was disciplined or that anyone asked the sender to stop sending such e-mails, which were forwarded to others.


                      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...ails/24400005/

                      I have been to the "south", places where blacks are decent percentage of the population. Let me say the vast majority of whites and blacks in the south are good folks. Ill say that its a minority of folks whom are the problem, and above wrt the emails, we see part of the problem.

                      Imo it would be one thing if say our CIC referred to the Ferguson police department as Apes, Chimps, crackers, that type of language, its not happening though. Part of the problem here lies with some portion of the Ferguson police department imo, unless the emails were made up.

                      Warning, here comes Captain Obvious(then again not everyone agrees on what is racism) I think its racist when a black suggests that whites are animals, crackers, worthless, or when a white suggests that blacks are apes, animals this kind of stuff. If Eric Holder said something racist I'd like to see it, part of the argument that some folks make is that Eric Holder and Obama are the racist, OK I hear this but I would like to actually physically see racist comments such as cracker, ape being used by Obama or Holder, to describe whites or blacks in general.


                      In the 1600s when people were accused of witchcraft, they were at least given the right to a (sham) trial before their convictions of being in league with the devil.
                      Now, our modern, enlightened society doesn't even permit the right to a sham trial before convicting anyone accused of being racist.

                      We are all quick to recognize the injustices and ignorance of the Salem witch trials, but refuse to consider we may be guilty of the same level of injustice when it comes to charges of racism.
                      Maybe we are no less ignorant than they were.

                      Paraphrasing Freud, sometimes a joke in an email is just a joke.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                        In the 1600s when people were accused of witchcraft, they were at least given the right to a (sham) trial before their convictions of being in league with the devil.
                        Now, our modern, enlightened society doesn't even permit the right to a sham trial before convicting anyone accused of being racist.

                        We are all quick to recognize the injustices and ignorance of the Salem witch trials, but refuse to consider we may be guilty of the same level of injustice when it comes to charges of racism.
                        Maybe we are no less ignorant than they were.

                        Paraphrasing Freud, sometimes a joke in an email is just a joke.

                        I'd agree that it was a witchunt if the DOJ invaded the homes of the Ferguson police folks and simply took their records without asking, thats not what was reported to happen though, rather,

                        Officials sent the e-mails from their city accounts "almost without exception" and apparently during work hours. Investigators found no evidence that anyone was disciplined or that anyone asked the sender to stop sending such e-mails, which were forwarded to others.

                        http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...ails/24400005/

                        The Ferguson folks were using their work accounts, its not as if they used their own private email accounts.

                        Thats said, do you think the DOJ created the emails out of thin air?

                        If not, do you think the Ferguson officials who(allegedly)said

                        A November 2008 e-mail stated that President Obama would not be president for very long because "what black man holds a steady job for four years."


                        A March 2010 e-mail mocked African Americans through speech and familial stereotypes, using a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: "I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!"

                        Should hold a job as an officer of the law? Or maybe they should face minimal punishment?

                        I think the folks responsible for the emails should at minimum, face a suspension. Ethics plays a massive role for Cops, in the LAPD for example, as with other police departments,



                        Los Angeles Police Department Officers are entrusted with responsibility to keep our cities safe from crime and corruption. Therefore, a history of ethical and moral behavior is of the utmost importance. Your background will be looked at very closely. Candidates who have a history of unethical or immoral behavior will not be hired. You will be subjected to an intensive background evaluation, which will include, but is not limited to, the following:


                        http://www.joinlapd.com/qualifications.html

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                          I'd agree that it was a witchunt if the DOJ invaded the homes of the Ferguson police folks and simply took their records without asking, thats not what was reported to happen though, rather,

                          Officials sent the e-mails from their city accounts "almost without exception" and apparently during work hours. Investigators found no evidence that anyone was disciplined or that anyone asked the sender to stop sending such e-mails, which were forwarded to others.

                          http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...ails/24400005/

                          The Ferguson folks were using their work accounts, its not as if they used their own private email accounts.

                          Thats said, do you think the DOJ created the emails out of thin air?

                          If not, do you think the Ferguson officials who(allegedly)said

                          A November 2008 e-mail stated that President Obama would not be president for very long because "what black man holds a steady job for four years."


                          A March 2010 e-mail mocked African Americans through speech and familial stereotypes, using a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: "I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!"

                          Should hold a job as an officer of the law? Or maybe they should face minimal punishment?

                          I think the folks responsible for the emails should at minimum, face a suspension. Ethics plays a massive role for Cops, in the LAPD for example, as with other police departments,



                          Los Angeles Police Department Officers are entrusted with responsibility to keep our cities safe from crime and corruption. Therefore, a history of ethical and moral behavior is of the utmost importance. Your background will be looked at very closely. Candidates who have a history of unethical or immoral behavior will not be hired. You will be subjected to an intensive background evaluation, which will include, but is not limited to, the following:


                          http://www.joinlapd.com/qualifications.html


                          So the accused should be deprived of even the benefit of a sham trial because what they did was offensive to you?
                          You will note I didn't defend their actions, I merely was commenting on the rush to convict them without benefit of trial.

                          Even people accused of being racist are entitled to defend themselves.
                          And we should be required to actually prove they are racist before we cast them out and shun them (or burn them) for being witches. I mean racists.
                          Last edited by Cambronnne; 10 Mar 15, 12:07.
                          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                            So the accused should be deprived of even the benefit of a sham trial because what they did was offensive to you?
                            You will note I didn't defend their actions, I merely was commenting on the rush to convict them without benefit of trial.

                            Even people accused of being racist are entitled to defend themselves.
                            And we should be required to actually prove they are racist before we cast them out and shun them (or burn them) for being witches. I mean racists.
                            If this was truly an Increase Mather style witch hunt, there would be folks getting hung from the gallows. I do understand that one could say the DOJ is on a witch hunt though, but we should also be fair here. I would label this case a with hunt if the policemen were suspended/fired without the evidence of the emails.

                            I would say who is or is not racist is subject to debate. But if its true that the emails belong to officers of the law, IMO suspensions ought to be handed out in accordance with the policy of the Ferguson police department. I assume that the Ferguson Police department does not condone unethical behavior, just as the LAPD(and I would safely say all police departments here in the USA) does not condone unethical behavior.

                            When it comes to applying for a job, LE folks are held to a much higher standard then civilians, there are certain requirements in order to get into the LE field.LE folks are expected to adhere to good ethics while on the job.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                              If this was truly an Increase Mather style witch hunt, there would be folks getting hung from the gallows. I do understand that one could say the DOJ is on a witch hunt though, but we should also be fair here. I would label this case a with hunt if the policemen were suspended/fired without the evidence of the emails.

                              I would say who is or is not racist is subject to debate. But if its true that the emails belong to officers of the law, IMO suspensions ought to be handed out in accordance with the policy of the Ferguson police department. I assume that the Ferguson Police department does not condone unethical behavior, just as the LAPD(and I would safely say all police departments here in the USA) does not condone unethical behavior.

                              When it comes to applying for a job, LE folks are held to a much higher standard then civilians, there are certain requirements in order to get into the LE field.LE folks are expected to adhere to good ethics while on the job.


                              I have no problem with the department banning emails such as this and investigating it further, but telling an offensive joke shouldn't result in the speaker's loss of the right to defend himself or our burden to prove he is actually guilty of something.

                              I suspect that any officer accused of racism in this report will find that he is essentially unemployable any where as a police officer.
                              Look what happened to Officer Wilson(the man who shot Brown). He had to leave the department despite being exonerated and it is doubtful that anyone will ever hire him as a cop again. All because he was convicted in the court of public opinion of being a racist. The absence of ANY proof of the charge apparently isn't important to his accusers. (I'm not talking about you.)
                              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                              Comment

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