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  • 60 Minutes tanks company by supporting Greentards.

    Let me start with a disclamer:

    I'm not defending the practices of the Chinese companies involved in this, they are sleazy scum like many Chinese companies are. Lumber Liquidators on the other hand was made a target by 60 minutes because they only reported half the story... The half that supports Greentards and tanks the company.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insid...Hf?ocid=SMSDHP

    Shares of Lumber Liquidators fell sharply Monday, after a “60 Minutes” report alleged the U.S. retailer of hardwood flooring has installed Chinese-made laminate flooring in many American homes that contain far higher-than-accepted levels of formaldehyde, a chemical known to cause cancer.

    Shares of the Toano, Va.–based Lumber Liquidators LL, -22.36% were down 23.2% at $39.47 in premarket trade.

    In a damning report, the “60 Minutes” team said three certified labs testing formaldehyde levels in the company’s Chinese-made laminate found it far exceeded California emissions standards.
    The problem with 60 Minute's reporting is that California's allowable formaldehyde levels in manufactured lumber is half or less the allowable US limit anywhere else.

    http://greensource.construction.com/news/080107carb.asp

    HUD and ASTM set the limit for formaldehyde at .3 ppm. California currently sets their limit by type of product at anywhere from .05 ppm to .15 ppm. So, while the Chinese company was not compliant with California's standard and lied by putting compliance stickers on products saying it was they still were complying with the general US standard...

    Something 60 Minutes neglected to bother to check or make part of their reporting. Thus, they tanked a company by omission in favor of Greentardism.

  • #2
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Let me start with a disclamer:

    I'm not defending the practices of the Chinese companies involved in this, they are sleazy scum like many Chinese companies are. Lumber Liquidators on the other hand was made a target by 60 minutes because they only reported half the story... The half that supports Greentards and tanks the company.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insid...Hf?ocid=SMSDHP



    The problem with 60 Minute's reporting is that California's allowable formaldehyde levels in manufactured lumber is half or less the allowable US limit anywhere else.

    http://greensource.construction.com/news/080107carb.asp

    HUD and ASTM set the limit for formaldehyde at .3 ppm. California currently sets their limit by type of product at anywhere from .05 ppm to .15 ppm. So, while the Chinese company was not compliant with California's standard and lied by putting compliance stickers on products saying it was they still were complying with the general US standard...

    Something 60 Minutes neglected to bother to check or make part of their reporting. Thus, they tanked a company by omission in favor of Greentardism.
    Sorry, the CA standards have been adopted by the US, 2010 law, and will go into effect later this year.

    This has nothing to do with 'Green' or not green. It has everything to do with knowingly, on the part of Lumber Liquidators, selling a product that is unhealthy in order to maximize profit.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
      Sorry, the CA standards have been adopted by the US, 2010 law, and will go into effect later this year.
      That has nothing to do with current products. That has to do with future products.

      This has nothing to do with 'Green' or not green. It has everything to do with knowingly, on the part of Lumber Liquidators, selling a product that is unhealthy in order to maximize profit.
      Sure it does. Air quality, of which this is part, is primarily an Environmental issue managed by the EPA and state EPA's. The product met current US standards even if it didn't meet California's.

      I'd also state that I'm very suspicious of the numbers used to validate the claims California is making on the need to reduce formaldehyde levels further. But, then again, the EPA does that all the time to justify miniscule reductions in miniscule levels of pollutants and when pressed for source data just says they don't legally have to supply it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        That has nothing to do with current products. That has to do with future products.



        Sure it does. Air quality, of which this is part, is primarily an Environmental issue managed by the EPA and state EPA's. The product met current US standards even if it didn't meet California's.

        I'd also state that I'm very suspicious of the numbers used to validate the claims California is making on the need to reduce formaldehyde levels further. But, then again, the EPA does that all the time to justify miniscule reductions in miniscule levels of pollutants and when pressed for source data just says they don't legally have to supply it.
        ALL the boxes that LL is currently selling are labled as meeting the CA standards. Those labels are a lie and represent fraud towards the consumer, no matter where the product is sold.

        The simple fact is that LL is selling a poor product that is not healthy for those that by it. You can't bend those facts.
        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
        “To talk of many things:
        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
        Of cabbages—and kings—
        And why the sea is boiling hot—
        And whether pigs have wings.”
        ― Lewis Carroll

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
          ALL the boxes that LL is currently selling are labled as meeting the CA standards. Those labels are a lie and represent fraud towards the consumer, no matter where the product is sold.

          The simple fact is that LL is selling a poor product that is not healthy for those that by it. You can't bend those facts.
          I mentioned that right off. I'm not defending the Chinese company's actions, only denigrating 60 Minutes for not mentioning what the actual levels were in their report. Lie by omission is just as bad.

          I am also not defending the quality of LL's products. I personally wouldn't buy most of their crap because that is really what it is, cheap crap. But, then again, any laminate flooring product is not really worth installing unless you are planning to sell soon or the floor will see little traffic.

          What I am pointing out is 60 Minutes sensationalized their report at the expense of this company. It won't be the first or last time a "news" source does that either. But, it is worthwhile to learn that they do it regularly and how to spot when it is being done.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            I mentioned that right off. I'm not defending the Chinese company's actions, only denigrating 60 Minutes for not mentioning what the actual levels were in their report. Lie by omission is just as bad.

            I am also not defending the quality of LL's products. I personally wouldn't buy most of their crap because that is really what it is, cheap crap. But, then again, any laminate flooring product is not really worth installing unless you are planning to sell soon or the floor will see little traffic.

            What I am pointing out is 60 Minutes sensationalized their report at the expense of this company. It won't be the first or last time a "news" source does that either. But, it is worthwhile to learn that they do it regularly and how to spot when it is being done.
            You're wrong. They clearly state that only CA currently has those standards now and that later this year those become the national standards. All the testing they site ONLY concerns the CA standards and is clearly stated as such. Did you even watch the report?
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              You're wrong. They clearly state that only CA currently has those standards now and that later this year those become the national standards. All the testing they site ONLY concerns the CA standards and is clearly stated as such. Did you even watch the report?
              That is the problem. They only cite the California standard. Right now, not in the future, the national standard is about double the California one. That makes the product legal for sale in 49 out of 50 states right now.

              That the Chinese company lied about their compliance with California's standard is a separate issue from the one I raised. 60 Minutes didn't cite the other standard so it is a lie by omission that is costing this company millions due to sensationalist reporting.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                That is the problem. They only cite the California standard. Right now, not in the future, the national standard is about double the California one. That makes the product legal for sale in 49 out of 50 states right now.

                That the Chinese company lied about their compliance with California's standard is a separate issue from the one I raised. 60 Minutes didn't cite the other standard so it is a lie by omission that is costing this company millions due to sensationalist reporting.
                The show sites the CA standard and also clearly state that currently it is ONLY the CA standard, not the US standard. They then correctly state that it will soon be standard across the country.

                The problem with selling it in the other 49 states is that ALL the cartons of the flooring STATE on them that they meet those CA standards, which is a LIE. Therefore no matter WHERE the product is sold the company is committing fraud, no matter what the standard.

                The issue is LL, not the Chinese companies lying to LL. The interview in the Chinese company clearly shows that LL knows that NO laminate can be made to meet the CA standards for the price LL wants to pay for it. The company looks the other way and claims it meets the standard even though they know it can not be done for the money they pay.
                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now LL is saying 60 Minutes report is wrong.

                  http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insid...1n?ocid=SMSDHP

                  The Lumber wars have begun!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bravo...Foxtrot...Delta...
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Bravo...Foxtrot...Delta...
                      I thought I'd thank you for your input in several languages...



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        just another way the chinese are killing us off.......who needs to go to war.. just slowly poison us while selling us the poison

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bottom line in my opinion is if your gonna sell a product here even if made overseas........its your responsibility to at least make sure your selling what you claim..........with a minimal search I also found there is a class action suit filed against LL for this issue two years ago.........so 60 minutes just has old news........

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, it's state law. The product did not meet the requirement, so it was rejected. How is this "greentardism ?" It sounds instead like a state government taking steps to protect is citizens from toxic chemicals and big business corporations looking to make a quick buck at their expense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                              Well, it's state law. The product did not meet the requirement, so it was rejected. How is this "greentardism ?" It sounds instead like a state government taking steps to protect is citizens from toxic chemicals and big business corporations looking to make a quick buck at their expense.
                              It is a state EPA with a Zero Tolerance mentality. They are not looking at what is a reasonable standard but rather continuing to lower the standard and justify it with faulty science. This is nothing new. The US EPA does the exact same thing as does OSHA, and the CPSC and a plethora of other bureaucracies.

                              Sure, the Chinese company lied on their labeling. That is nothing new. Drywall, rebar, the same thing happened.

                              But, it becomes a Greentard thing when the environmental bureaucracies lower standards simply because they can justifying it in any way they can. These bureaucracies are just as willing to lie about their standards as the Chinese company is about compliance.

                              Comment

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