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The Opening Shots In The Ammo War

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  • The Opening Shots In The Ammo War

    Lawmakers are firing back at a proposal by the Obama administration to ban one of the most common bullets used with the popular AR-15 rifle, with more than 100 members of Congress signing a letter opposing the move on ammo.
    Word of the proposal by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to ban .223 M855 “green tip” ammunition came out on Thursday and prompted an immediate backlash from sportsmen. House members from both parties and some law enforcement officials were not far behind.
    “[The ban] will interfere with Second Amendment rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law abiding Americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes,” reads the letter signed by lawmakers and addressed to ATF director Todd Jones.
    “[The ban] will interfere with Second Amendment rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law abiding Americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes.”- Letter from lawmakers to ATF
    The bullets, which can pierce bulletproof vests used by law enforcement, had previously been approved by the ATF in 1986. The agency now says that because handguns have now been designed that can also fire the bullets, police officers are now more likely to encounter them and so they should be banned.
    However, the congressional letter notes that the ATF provides no evidence of the bullet’s danger to law enforcement.
    “ATF has not even alleged – much less offered evidence – that even one such round has ever been fired from a handgun at a police officer,” the letter reads.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...ntcmp=HPBucket

    Currently, every large caliber handgun on the market has the capability to pierce armor/vests, from 7mm on upwards through the magnum models, and some such as the venerable .357 have been able to do so for a long, long time.

    Meanwhile, I cannot think of a legitimate reason for a sportsman or a target shooter to need armor piercing ammo, but if one does, may I recommend the standard .30-06 M1 Garand round, guaranteed to pierce one inch of Sherman tank armor ar 100 yards? That should suffice for your "hunting" needs.

    Or, you could just dip your standard ammo into liquid Teflon, which produces a round with the same capability.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

  • #2
    I have seen a lot of these steel tipped bullets and I avoid them because I don't want to shoot steel tipped ammo through my AR 15. My stance is that this is a test run where Obama could add more ammo types later on. It is bad enough the ammo prices went so high the last few years. The prices are just getting back to inexpensive!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
      I have seen a lot of these steel tipped bullets and I avoid them because I don't want to shoot steel tipped ammo through my AR 15. My stance is that this is a test run where Obama could add more ammo types later on. It is bad enough the ammo prices went so high the last few years. The prices are just getting back to inexpensive!

      Pruitt
      I agree, as I stated in another thread, banning 855s for civilians is just a start for them, it's the old frog in the pot thing, the heat gets turned up a little at a time.
      Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
        I have seen a lot of these steel tipped bullets and I avoid them because I don't want to shoot steel tipped ammo through my AR 15. My stance is that this is a test run where Obama could add more ammo types later on. It is bad enough the ammo prices went so high the last few years. The prices are just getting back to inexpensive!

        Pruitt
        If that were the case he'd have had them choose something few people use and done it quietly. That way he'd have a precedent to then ban other ammunition.
        No, this is about a Progressive Leftist who knows nothing about firearms and wants nothing to do with them banning a perennial Leftie favorite target: The "Assault rifle." Just as with previous attempts to ban "assault rifles" it is cosmetic rather than effective because those doing it don't know squat about firearms.

        Their thinking is An AR 15 / M16 fires .223 ammunition. If we ban .223 ammunition those guns are useless. They never consider that the weapon can be chambered for other ammunition. That would come as an utter and complete shock to them. They would be stunned to find out that someone has altered their AR 15 with a new barrel, chamber, and magazine to fire some other type of ammunition. It would be nearly incomprehensible to them.

        That is what you are dealing with here: Obama the Ignorant and his Minions of Ignorance.

        Think about this: I you were in college and talking to a Liberal Arts or Fine Arts major about this stuff, or anything technical they would be lost the second you started using any details. These are people who can't figure out how to change a flat tire or use the remote control for their DVR.

        In their world:

        Nuclear = evil because it's nuclear!
        Guns = evil because guns kill people.
        CO2 = evil because it is killing the planet.
        Solar and wind = good because they are "free."
        The Rich = mean / bad because they have lots of money they won't share.
        Algebra = useless because "nobody really uses that."
        Electric cars = no pollution.


        This is the sort of world the Progressive Left lives in. It is how Liberal and Fine Arts majors think.

        Comment


        • #5
          Remember all the people who mocked everyone that was hoarding ammo a few years ago?

          Yup, just kooks, how could they ever have been right, eh?
          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
            I have seen a lot of these steel tipped bullets and I avoid them because I don't want to shoot steel tipped ammo through my AR 15. My stance is that this is a test run where Obama could add more ammo types later on. It is bad enough the ammo prices went so high the last few years. The prices are just getting back to inexpensive!

            Pruitt
            The steel penetrator is buried in the middle of the lead core. It's actually not that good of ammo, since it's not as accurate as standard M193. This is due to the impossibility in a high volume plant to get the penetrator exactly concentric with the bore. That being said, I'm against banning it. The "problem" arose because so many people have been buying the Sig Brace to be able to shoot their AR pistols from the shoulder, that the ATF took a look at how many AR pistols were out there and was probably surprised at the amount.

            Comment


            • #7
              You guys should take up hand-loading.
              Credo quia absurdum.


              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                The steel penetrator is buried in the middle of the lead core. It's actually not that good of ammo...
                That's why it was so cheap on the open market!

                And in case any of the dopes at the ATF are watching- any good rifle ammo will cut right through Body Armor at short to medium ranges, unless its hollow-point.

                The meek have inherited the Earth, and they have no common sense.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                  That's why it was so cheap on the open market!

                  And in case any of the dopes at the ATF are watching- any good rifle ammo will cut right through Body Armor at short to medium ranges, unless its hollow-point.
                  1. It actually costs more than the M193 FMJ.
                  2. That's the whole point. It used to be classified as rifle ammo, so it was okay. Just recently, the ATF made a determination, that due to the large increase in AR pistols, that it is a pistol round.
                  PS- Not saying that I agree with their rationale, just saying what it is.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I guess next the National Marches will be shutdown. Great plan Obama!
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                      I guess next the National Marches will be shutdown. Great plan Obama!
                      He'll have to ban that evil hollowpoint ammo (OTM) for that to happen. Since the Feds don't support the matches anymore, screw 'em.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Great post Mountain Man and extra points for "provocative" title.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          I have seen a lot of these steel tipped bullets and I avoid them because I don't want to shoot steel tipped ammo through my AR 15. My stance is that this is a test run where Obama could add more ammo types later on. It is bad enough the ammo prices went so high the last few years. The prices are just getting back to inexpensive!

                          Pruitt
                          Agreed, and here in Colorado, 9 mil ammo remains in short supply.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
                            Great post Mountain Man and extra points for "provocative" title.
                            Thank you, sir. Trying to lighten the day, although I am unable to top your recent contribution.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Agreed, and here in Colorado, 9 mil ammo remains in short supply.
                              How much do you need? The only thing that's still nationally hard to get is .22 Long Rifle, particularly CCI Minimags.

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