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Towns in upstate NY want to secede from state

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  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
    Why do liberals always toss the word revolution around during political disagreements? No one's locking and loading. All you have are some concerned citizens who have voiced a desire to switch states so they can stop getting hosed. And while you have presented an argument for why it would be difficult and probably impossible to do under the Constitution, you have presented no evidence to suggest that these people don't have a legitimate grievance or that such a suggestion isn't a good idea theoretically that might rate an amendment or two so that said process would be easier.
    Read the post I replied to. You don't pick up on the revolution theme in that post? Sure?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pirateship1982
    replied
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    Nice, the Constitutional method is "high-handed" and "authoritarian".

    I don't have a side, I'm in the middle.

    More revolution fantasy's I see. I guess that is your meme now instead of the rapidly oncoming financial collapse scenario you predicted for the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.
    Why do liberals always toss the word revolution around during political disagreements? No one's locking and loading. All you have are some concerned citizens who have voiced a desire to switch states so they can stop getting hosed. And while you have presented an argument for why it would be difficult and probably impossible to do under the Constitution, you have presented no evidence to suggest that these people don't have a legitimate grievance or that such a suggestion isn't a good idea theoretically that might rate an amendment or two so that said process would be easier.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    No I post about the constitution a lot. I use it as the Constitution is supposed to be used. I don't make up stuff about it.
    Likewise.
    Twice.
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    The group you post on, the 51st State of Jefferson, outline the exact same procedure that I posted, i.e. the constitutional one. The back up court case has no chance.
    Yes, at about 27;00 in the video they explain that all very well, and only takes about 2-3 minutes to cover the basics.

    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    Representation is determined by population, not square miles. As it should be. We are a nation of people, not acreage.
    That's not the point at all.
    One. its something like the size of Pennsylvania, so this is not tiny enclave.

    Two; whoever is calling the shots for them is doing it wrong, as their condition shows.

    Totally different cultures, outlooks and attitudes are at odds, and the more intimately the Southern aristocrats involve themselves in the lives of these people, and the more destructive that contact is, the more trouble it causes.

    States exist for a reason... or could it be that they are being phased out anyway?
    Last edited by The Exorcist; 26 Feb 15, 15:37.

    Leave a comment:


  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Oh, okay, you want another go? Fine by me.

    Firstly- the only use you ever make of the Constitution is Authoritarian, in fact this is the only time I have ever seen you support it in any way at all.
    And that sort of use if it is to be expected.

    Furthermore, I was expecting an economic collapse in Feb. of 2013, and in the end I admitted i was wrong. Go ahead and look, I'm sure you have it enshrined in your archives somewhere, people around here seem to have a fetish about that sort of thing where I am concerned.
    And apparently, the govt Can print unlimited amounts of money forever w/o any disadvantage, eh?
    Whoddathunkit.
    Hey, its a surprise to me, this is the first time in history they are getting away with it.

    Now, about this issue-
    http://www.soj51.net/events.html

    Rural New York is not alone.

    The northern 1/3rd California has 6 state reps, out of 120. Now, people like you may think that the economic exploitation of a minority is perfectly acceptable just so long as it's some Rednecks, but I ain't one of them.

    And the sole response will be hyperbole and insults.
    No, not just from you to me, I'm talking about the response from the most fiscally irresponsible State in the Union (for ten years running now) for its own constituents.

    When a Govt treats its people like crap, they do have a right to look elsewhere, even (oh the heresy!) to their own resources.

    I suppose the aim of the State is to keep control of the land, and to prevent anyone from making a place that would be more enjoyable for people to live... but the people who live there don't have much choice in the matter.
    Not everyone can, or should have to, move to Texas.

    http://stateofjeffersonjournal.com/

    No, I'm not putting thee links up to convince anyone of anything, I want the people who are considering this to know they are not alone, nor are we the evil/weird/kooks that people like CE and the Media are so desperatly trying to convince us that we all are.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
    No I post about the constitution a lot. I use it as the Constitution is supposed to be used. I don't make up stuff about it.

    The group you post on, the 51st State of Jefferson, outline the exact same procedure that I posted, i.e. the constitutional one. The back up court case has no chance.

    Representation is determined by population, not square miles. As it should be. We are a nation of people, not acreage.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
    I welcome this proposal. I think ultimately - due to the NYC centric views of Albany - New York will split into multiple different states, or join other states as these towns are proposing. Here on Long Island we are seeing the rise of a growing statehood movement. Every day that Long Island remains part of New York is another day of high taxes and economic stagnation. Why should Long Island have to serve as a cash cow for the rest of the state?

    New York politics is three men in a room working on schemes to screw the rest of the state so NYC can get more freebies and handouts.
    The notion of a statehood movement on Long Island is laughable. For one thing, The Island's whole economy is inextricably tied to the City's: don't blame me, blame Moses. For another, if y'all on the Island are griping about taxes, then don't blame Albany: blame your town halls. What you guys assess in property taxes is mind-boggling -- but that has nothing to do with Albany. I mean, why on earth do you pay your cops and your teachers twice the City rate? The Taylor Law only ties your hands but so much. That's never been explained to me.

    But for the Southern Tier, secession from NYS might make sense. The Southern Tier has always been this state's middle child: forgotten and ignored. That started back when they dug the Canal, and it hasn't changed since. With the exception of Binghamton there are no significant population centers of which to speak, and very little industry remains, so it only stands to reason that the Southern Tier carries no weight in Albany. That being said, if they throw in with Pennsylvania, their situation likely won't improve, and for the same reasons: Pennsylvania's politics are as dominated by Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and their suburbs as New York's are by The City and her suburbs. The Southern Tier would be better served throwing in with Ohio rather than Pennsylvania.

    Re I-88: I remember when I-88 opened. For years it was my favorite interstate. Why on earth they let her surface go to pot I can't possibly fathom. And how converting NY-17 to IHS standards is going to serve the Southern Tier is again beyond my imagination. Looks like the fat boys in Albany have some contracts to award to their buddies is all.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Oh, okay, you want another go? Fine by me.

    Firstly- the only use you ever make of the Constitution is Authoritarian, in fact this is the only time I have ever seen you support it in any way at all.
    And that sort of use if it is to be expected.

    Furthermore, I was expecting an economic collapse in Feb. of 2013, and in the end I admitted i was wrong. Go ahead and look, I'm sure you have it enshrined in your archives somewhere, people around here seem to have a fetish about that sort of thing where I am concerned.
    And apparently, the govt Can print unlimited amounts of money forever w/o any disadvantage, eh?
    Whoddathunkit.
    Hey, its a surprise to me, this is the first time in history they are getting away with it.

    Now, about this issue-
    http://www.soj51.net/events.html

    Rural New York is not alone.

    The northern 1/3rd California has 6 state reps, out of 120. Now, people like you may think that the economic exploitation of a minority is perfectly acceptable just so long as it's some Rednecks, but I ain't one of them.

    And the sole response will be hyperbole and insults.
    No, not just from you to me, I'm talking about the response from the most fiscally irresponsible State in the Union (for ten years running now) for its own constituents.

    When a Govt treats its people like crap, they do have a right to look elsewhere, even (oh the heresy!) to their own resources.

    I suppose the aim of the State is to keep control of the land, and to prevent anyone from making a place that would be more enjoyable for people to live... but the people who live there don't have much choice in the matter.
    Not everyone can, or should have to, move to Texas.

    http://stateofjeffersonjournal.com/

    No, I'm not putting thee links up to convince anyone of anything, I want the people who are considering this to know they are not alone, nor are we the evil/weird/kooks that people like CE and the Media are so desperatly trying to convince us that we all are.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg8lb2s-LQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">

    Leave a comment:


  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Well, your high-handed Authoritarian ways never change, do they?

    Your side of the aisle tramples the Constitution every day in every way they can get away with, in fact it can be said that we live in a post-constitutional era thanks to the Democrats (mostly).
    But hey, you know where you can stick it, right?



    My contention is that if the effect of such boundaries is entirely negative for the people involved, a re-drawing of the boundaries is inevitable.
    Peacefully now, or violently a generation of two down the road.
    That wich is done peacefully now is easier to un-do the same way later on, when the cities have a more sane and equitable leadership.

    And that perfect storm? Another one is forming... but yeah, see my sig.
    Nice, the Constitutional method is "high-handed" and "authoritarian".

    I don't have a side, I'm in the middle.

    More revolution fantasy's I see. I guess that is your meme now instead of the rapidly oncoming financial collapse scenario you predicted for the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    A movement can not do anything. It takes the state legislature and then the approval of both houses of congress to change the borders of a state.
    Well, your high-handed Authoritarian ways never change, do they?

    Your side of the aisle tramples the Constitution every day in every way they can get away with, in fact it can be said that we live in a post-constitutional era thanks to the Democrats (mostly).
    But hey, you know where you can stick it, right?

    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    To accomplish a state re-alignment you would need a perfect storm of political events at both the state & Federal levels.

    Such as what created West Virginia.
    My contention is that if the effect of such boundaries is entirely negative for the people involved, a re-drawing of the boundaries is inevitable.
    Peacefully now, or violently a generation of two down the road.
    That wich is done peacefully now is easier to un-do the same way later on, when the cities have a more sane and equitable leadership.

    And that perfect storm? Another one is forming... but yeah, see my sig.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
    Nobody is discussing secession from the United States, those of us here in New York merely want a more perfect Union through becoming a separate state or by joining another state. Separatism is a joke, especially those Texas clowns. They make Ruben Berrios look semi-sane in comparison. I would be the first to personally crush anyone who advocates separatism.

    West Virginia was once part of Virginia, North and South Dakota were once together. Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands could unify in the future (but then - ironically - the former Northern Marianas would then likely lose all their federal funding to the larger Guam ).
    Texas, OK, and bits of others used to be all one piece....

    Leave a comment:


  • ChrisF1987
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    And the Civil War showed us that there is no 'renegotiating' being part of the United States. So if the State and Federal governments says no, there isn't much you can do about it.

    More seriously though, I always found these wannabe secessionists to be quite amusing. They never follow through on their demands, and it's always a PR stunt that some people tend to take seriously.

    Heck, there are still those that believe Texas has some hidden right somewhere in the paperwork it signed with the United States that allows it to secede if it wants to.
    Nobody is discussing secession from the United States, those of us here in New York merely want a more perfect Union through becoming a separate state or by joining another state. Separatism is a joke, especially those Texas clowns. They make Ruben Berrios look semi-sane in comparison. I would be the first to personally crush anyone who advocates separatism.

    West Virginia was once part of Virginia, North and South Dakota were once together. The modern state of Oklahoma was two separate territories pre-statehood. Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands could unify in the future (but then - ironically - the former Northern Marianas would then likely lose all their federal funding to the larger Guam ).

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    To accomplish a state re-alignment you would need a perfect storm of political events at both the state & Federal levels.

    Such as what created West Virginia.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    It isn't going to happen. It takes approval from both the state and federal governments.

    It really is a stupid idea.

    Sincerely,
    M
    And the Civil War showed us that there is no 'renegotiating' being part of the United States. So if the State and Federal governments says no, there isn't much you can do about it.

    More seriously though, I always found these wannabe secessionists to be quite amusing. They never follow through on their demands, and it's always a PR stunt that some people tend to take seriously.

    Heck, there are still those that believe Texas has some hidden right somewhere in the paperwork it signed with the United States that allows it to secede if it wants to.

    Leave a comment:


  • 101combatvet
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
    I welcome this proposal. I think ultimately - due to the NYC centric views of Albany - New York will split into multiple different states, or join other states as these towns are proposing. Here on Long Island we are seeing the rise of a growing statehood movement. Every day that Long Island remains part of New York is another day of high taxes and economic stagnation. Why should Long Island have to serve as a cash cow for the rest of the state?

    New York politics is three men in a room working on schemes to screw the rest of the state so NYC can get more freebies and handouts.
    I can't really blame them. Funny how this comes up with those democratic states.

    Leave a comment:


  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
    I welcome this proposal. I think ultimately - due to the NYC centric views of Albany - New York will split into multiple different states, or join other states as these towns are proposing. Here on Long Island we are seeing the rise of a growing statehood movement. Every day that Long Island remains part of New York is another day of high taxes and economic stagnation. Why should Long Island have to serve as a cash cow for the rest of the state?

    New York politics is three men in a room working on schemes to screw the rest of the state so NYC can get more freebies and handouts.
    A movement can not do anything. It takes the state legislature and then the approval of both houses of congress to change the borders of a state.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChrisF1987
    replied
    I welcome this proposal. I think ultimately - due to the NYC centric views of Albany - New York will split into multiple different states, or join other states as these towns are proposing. Here on Long Island we are seeing the rise of a growing statehood movement. Every day that Long Island remains part of New York is another day of high taxes and economic stagnation. Why should Long Island have to serve as a cash cow for the rest of the state?

    New York politics is three men in a room working on schemes to screw the rest of the state so NYC can get more freebies and handouts.

    Leave a comment:

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