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  • #61
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    And,of course ,there was no reason for the US to remain in the ME after Saddam was eliminated : there was only one good solution :to leave and place Saddam II in Bagdad .All would be quiet .
    Saddam II and all would be quiet? I think that is wishful thinking. That would indicate that you feel if we had set up another dictator like Saddam that there would be peace there today??? I hardly think so. I believe that the radical terrorists that make up today's ISIS were sitting there waiting for such a thing to happen. Organizations like ISIS do not form overnight. They seized the opportunity created when Saddam was removed just like they seized the opportunity in Syria when the regime there began to lose it's grip on the people during the Syrian uprising. Now they are doing the same thing in Libya.
    It is why we must first calculate what will happen in the ME when countries become destabilized by conflict. This part of the world has always been a powder keg waiting for a spark to set it off and it will remain that way.
    I personally do not believe we will ever see peace, at least as far as we define 'peace' in the western part of the world, in this region.
    "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
    - Col. David Hackworth

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    • #62
      Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
      Saddam II and all would be quiet? I think that is wishful thinking. That would indicate that you feel if we had set up another dictator like Saddam that there would be peace there today??? I hardly think so. I believe that the radical terrorists that make up today's ISIS were sitting there waiting for such a thing to happen. Organizations like ISIS do not form overnight. They seized the opportunity created when Saddam was removed just like they seized the opportunity in Syria when the regime there began to lose it's grip on the people during the Syrian uprising. Now they are doing the same thing in Libya.
      It is why we must first calculate what will happen in the ME when countries become destabilized by conflict. This part of the world has always been a powder keg waiting for a spark to set it off and it will remain that way.
      I personally do not believe we will ever see peace, at least as far as we define 'peace' in the western part of the world, in this region.
      The biggest problem regarding Iraq is that we were trying to stabalize a country which shouldn't exist.

      Iraq should be 3 nations (Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia). They don't want to be a state together, so its no wonder they fight and clash.

      The problem is that the geopolitical situation made the 'correct' solution untenable. We couldn't break up the country because of what Turkey and Iran would do (invade Kurdistan and turn the Shia part into a client-state, respectively).

      That is the big difference between the post-war situation in Germany and Japan, and in Iraq. Germany and Japan were homogeneous states with a strong national identity. Iraq is a byproduct of colonialism that shouldn't exist.

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      • #63
        Typical of many of the "nations" created by the European colonial powers.

        That's why I favor letting them sort it out themselves. Anything we attempt to accomplish will be seen as interference.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Typical of many of the "nations" created by the European colonial powers.

          That's why I favor letting them sort it out themselves. Anything we attempt to accomplish will be seen as interference.
          That is why Iraq (and to a lesser extent Afghanistan) are not suitable examples when it comes to nation building - you have to have a nation in the first place to build back up. Germany had a nation. Japan had a nation. Iraq and Afghanistan were forced associations which were more tribal than the western concept of a "nation".

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
            The biggest problem regarding Iraq is that we were trying to stabalize a country which shouldn't exist.

            Iraq should be 3 nations (Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia). They don't want to be a state together, so its no wonder they fight and clash.
            Ah, come on, at least reference that great idea which would stop all the problems in the Mideast. Wasn't it crazy Uncle Joe (Biden, not Stalin) that came up with that during his historic run for the US presidency 6 years back?

            I always love when I see minds who cannot relate to reality propose the same ideas.
            "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Trailboss49 View Post
              Ah, come on, at least reference that great idea which would stop all the problems in the Mideast.
              McDonalds?

              Wasn't it crazy Uncle Joe (Biden, not Stalin) that came up with that during his historic run for the US presidency 6 years back?
              From what I've read there is mention of it when he was just a senator. However, he didn't come up with the idea, no.

              I always love when I see minds who cannot relate to reality propose the same ideas.
              It's a tragedy, but it happens. Worse, though, are those who keep failing but never change their approach.

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              • #67
                Democracy and Islam just doesn't mix.
                “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                --Salmon P. Chase

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                • #68
                  Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                  • #69
                    How about employment on a pig farm?
                    “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                    --Salmon P. Chase

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Savez View Post
                      How about employment on a pig farm?
                      Would be a cruel and unusual punishment for the pigs.

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                      • #71
                        Seriously we should carpet bomb them with pigs. I bet a 600 lb pig would do some damage.
                        “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                        --Salmon P. Chase

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Savez View Post
                          Seriously we should carpet bomb them with pigs. I bet a 600 lb pig would do some damage.

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