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C.I.A. Is Said to Have Bought and Destroyed Iraqi Chemical Weapons

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
    John, can we take a break from this until tomorrow?
    Sure.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
      Sure.
      Thanks, I appreciate that.
      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        There were no remnants of any 'programs; at all. All had ceased after 1996, most earlier.

        Rounds of ammunition? Yes, of course it is well documented, even before the NYT broke the latest story last Oct or Dec...

        Saddam order them destroyed, his underlings typically hurried to make his wish come true. Result was most were destroyed others were buried in sites containing a variety of munitions. All from Pre-1991. Nothing to do with why we went to war.

        Lied? No, I think the worlds Intel agencies went seeking to find what they 'knew' was there, instead of seeking to find if any thing was there. A case of:
        Remnants were left. Saddam didn't order anything. If he could have hidden it all from the UN he would have.







        Yea, much of it was junk or pretty close to junk but that doesn't change it was still lying around as were considerable numbers of munitions.



        They got it wrong. That's a far cry from fabricating lies from thin air. To put it bluntly, the Left lied about Bush and Western intelligence issues because it was in their political interest to do so.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          Remnants were left. Saddam didn't order anything. If he could have hidden it all from the UN he would have.







          Yea, much of it was junk or pretty close to junk but that doesn't change it was still lying around as were considerable numbers of munitions.



          They got it wrong. That's a far cry from fabricating lies from thin air. To put it bluntly, the Left lied about Bush and Western intelligence issues because it was in their political interest to do so.
          Yes they were surely innocent of not lying and manipulating evidence to start the war.
          Last edited by VinceW; 17 Feb 15, 00:27.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            Remnants were left. Saddam didn't order anything. If he could have hidden it all from the UN he would have.


            Yea, much of it was junk or pretty close to junk but that doesn't change it was still lying around as were considerable numbers of munitions.


            They got it wrong. That's a far cry from fabricating lies from thin air. To put it bluntly, the Left lied about Bush and Western intelligence issues because it was in their political interest to do so.
            Lets see, pictures of trailers that had nothing to do with BW or CW. Check.

            A picture of an Iraqi Chemical Munitions dump from the 1991 gulf war... Check.

            The CIA investigation into the Iraqi Nuclear BW and CW program clearly state the Saddam order them destroyed. You declaring it not so does not mean anything.

            By the way, I did not say they lied. Never had. Strawman.
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Nichols View Post
              Sergio,

              Don't you find it strange that people will blame President Bush for something that President Clinton also said?

              The person responsible for this was Saddam, he was clearly given the terms of the cease fire. He clearly broke the terms of the cease fire. This is no different from what others have done in history.
              There was also a great deal of criticism over how the Clinton administration dealt with Iraq - as well as why they handled it the way that they did. Clinton has not gotten nearly enough criticism. The point about the Bush administration is that they went before the world and made very specific claims about an ongoing WMD program which presented an active and future threat to the region and the world as a whole. Much of the evidence was found to have been in serious dispute with the intelligence community and administration at the time. Some of the evidence was not just mistaken but provably false - as has been shown in the past every time these threads come up.

              Saddam Hussein was a murdering scumbag whose regime was supported for a long time by a huge number of countries. However, what Bush and his cronies claimed has been proven to be false and in some cases was known to being knowingly misstated and exaggerated at the time. As for Blair and his role, the less said the better.

              None of the old weapons or munitions that have turned up were evidence of the active WMD program, stockpiles and threat that Bush claimed. It was known that there were the remnants of a long dead, abandoned program in Iraq - no one has ever claimed otherwise. CE has provided evidence of their attempt to destroy them. Sorry Paul but it seems that you are determined on a semantic argument over WMD being found in Iraq thus proving the 'media' and others wrong.
              Last edited by Sergio; 17 Feb 15, 13:58.
              "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
              G.B Shaw

              "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
              Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                It was known that there were the remnants of a long dead, abandoned program in Iraq - no one has ever claimed otherwise. CE has provided evidence of their attempt to destroy them. Sorry Paul but it seems that you are determined on a semantic argument over WMD being found in Iraq thus proving the 'media' and others wrong.
                Sergio,

                This is what was reported:

                WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saddam Hussein did not possess stockpiles of illicit weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them, a CIA report concludes.

                http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...aq.wmd.report/

                From 2004 all the up until WMD started to be 'found' in Iraq, the left's chant was 'Bush lied, people died'

                Once the news started trickling out the story was changed to there was never a doubt that remnants were there. Last October a new report came out that over 5,000 WMD munitions were discovered. These are still being called 'remnants' you know as well as I do that 5,000 munitions is more than 'remnants. We're not talking about rifle cartridges, most of the munitions were not binary weapons; they needed to be stored in specific climate conditions.

                The articles that CE posted came out before the October 2014 5,000 munitions article , the same applies to this threads article. These 'new' discoveries pretty much make CE's article links moot in context to these two stories.

                The semantic argument appears to be coming form the people that insist on using an old document to undermine an unknown fact when the document was published.

                Bottom line is that none of those documents refute the new discoveries.

                There is another story that I mentioned a while ago; Porton Down sent scientist to Iraq to instruct and oversee destruction of WMD. The world's best CW & BW Defense organization sent their people to oversee the destruction of WMD remnants? It will probably be 20 or so years before we find out what they were sent to oversee.
                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                Comment


                • #68
                  President Bush claimed an active weapons program

                  This is far from vindication. We were fully aware Iraq had old weapons of Mass Destruction because we gave it to them (REF 1, 2, 3, 4). The article you cited even shows that the shells came from the 1980s Iran-Iraq war (REF 5). The search for weapons was called off during the war (REF
                  6, 7, 8). Many other old weapons were found before (REF 9) and the article says that “these weapons were manufactured before the 1991 invasion of Kuwait.” President Bush and his administration specifically referred to Iraq having NEW weapons of mass destruction (REF 10, 11, 12) and wasn’t too concerned about the old weapons found.
                  President Bush has admitted on at least two separate occasions (REF 13, 14) that a weapons program didn’t exist, and as for a nuclear program he definitely didn’t have one (REF 15) not to say he didn’t want one (REF 16).

                  1. http://bit.ly/1DCAODM
                  2. http://bit.ly/1AE9q9A
                  3. http://bit.ly/1AE9u9a
                  4. http://atfp.co/IGuy4X
                  5. http://nyti.ms/19vEjRw
                  6. http://cnn.it/1yW0lBW
                  7. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/li...ort/index.html
                  8. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Oct6.html
                  9. http://nyti.ms/1sdPzGL
                  10. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/spr...ll.transcript/
                  11. http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLIT...sh.transcript/
                  12. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/text-of-...un-12-09-2002/
                  13. http://youtu.be/soohikNdbWs
                  14. http://youtu.be/18M70UgmV40
                  15. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/li...ort/index.html
                  16. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ed-to-get-wmd/

                  Anti-Myth Machine

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by VinceW View Post
                    Yes they were surely innocent of not lying and manipulating evidence to start the war.
                    And it appears that the UN weapons inspectors couldn't do their job for big money. Where is their share of the blame?
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by antimythmachine View Post
                      This is far from vindication.
                      Not looking for vindication, looking to discuss this new information.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                        And it appears that the UN weapons inspectors couldn't do their job for big money. Where is their share of the blame?
                        The blame rests on Saddam's shoulders, on one else.
                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by antimythmachine View Post
                          ...
                          Sniff Sniff...

                          I'm smelling something familiar here...
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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