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Cop Shooting This one is going to be tough.

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  • Cop Shooting This one is going to be tough.

    Mods, move this if it's inappropriate to the site.
    Disclaimer: Like many of you, I am just Joe Citizen. 25 years since my last traffic ticket, follow the rules, understand that Police have a tough job, but in my experience the Police are my friends and have proved it during a few situations. I have supported them during the major recent events.

    That said. Yesterday in a town 100 miles away a man was shot by Police.
    Pasco WA has some pretty tough areas and this took place in one of those.
    It's early, but what we think we know at this point:
    The man had a history of Meth use and mental problems. One of his habits was throwing rocks at sidewalk people and cars on the roadway. 911 was called and the Police showed up. He would not comply with requests and a struggle ensued including back that had been called. A Taser was ineffective, whether it was due to drugs or a bad hit, is not yet known. An Officer involved in the melee reported that the subject tried to reach her gun.
    He broke free and ran, the Officers fired a volley at his back hitting him with at least one shot. He continued running, the troopers caught up to him, and when he turned around they fired a deadly second volley.

    Suicide by Cop? Police overload? Lot's to learn, but this is one is totally on tape lots of cell cameras. I'll post the one with the English translation. There are a few others from different angles on You Tube.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlQnjr3ff_0
    My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

  • #2
    Weird, one dude says he saw the whole thing then says he just saw the guy running away. I would like to know what happened before he was running away. Either way it still looks like excessive force to me. But I would be pissed off if some prick threw a rock a me. Either way one less idiot breathing air.

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    • #3
      Unfortunately (?), the cops have to play by the rules.

      GG
      "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

      "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
        Weird, one dude says he saw the whole thing then says he just saw the guy running away. I would like to know what happened before he was running away. Either way it still looks like excessive force to me. But I would be pissed off if some prick threw a rock a me. Either way one less idiot breathing air.
        There are more vids, basically they show the police shooting at him as he runs away. You can hear the shots. There are protests building about the situation.
        However, the individual is Hispanic. Al Sharpton and his buddies seem to ignore the situation.
        My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by holly6 View Post
          There are more vids, basically they show the police shooting at him as he runs away. You can hear the shots. There are protests building about the situation.
          However, the individual is Hispanic. Al Sharpton and his buddies seem to ignore the situation.
          Just because he's running away doesn't negate the need or justification for shooting him. The norm is if you were already in a position that necessitated his being shot his running away doesn't change that. You shoot him to stop the action.

          That's the way I was trained for 30 something + years...

          Also, you shoot center mass and you fire more than one round to hit with the intent to totally incapacitate or kill him. (personally I would prefer the later as dead men don't testify. And, while that sounds harsh I put my career ahead of some POS criminal every time).

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          • #6
            I can't get a clear read on the incident. One officer was hit by a softball-sized rock, the guy had a history of drug use and mental illness, but the actual chain of events is extremely unclear.

            Various reports say he was shot only when advancing on officers, there are onlooker claims he was shot in the back, there's at least one civilian video that the agency says has been dubbed...its a mess.

            Armchair quarterbacking is not usually of much use, particularly with the case law on use of force, but from what I have read its going to be an uphill fight unless there are facts not currently provided.

            The key is going to be the autopsy. Both Trevor Martin and Ferguson saw a lot of nonsense published as 'fact' which was exposed as fiction once the forensic results were made public.

            If the initial reports are accurate, which is extremely rare, then IMO/IME the key to this issue is as always poor training and poor policy. The failure of the TASER (They fail as often as they work) should be expected; IMO the next move is the old school three-officer rush and attendant subdual with fist, boot, and baton. However, too many agencies abhor such visually ugly methods and hammer the use of stand-off devices such as the TASER.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #7
              Here's a police ...

              ... use of force escalation model/wheel for your perusal; you start in the centre, and work your way out until the specific problem is solved. It's a Canadian model (note the French), I can't say it's exactly what was in use when I last trained (almost 5 years for me) because it reflects an evolutionary process, but it's certainly very similar. Specific models also have to take into account jurisdictional variations and operational policy as well; police service training units usually ensure the model in use in training is the most current. In my case, all police officers in the Province had to qualify annually, failure to do so meant losing all your use of force equipment i.e. firearm, cuffs, baton, pepper spray & Taser, if so equipped, until you did.


              "I am Groot"
              - Groot

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Marmat View Post
                ... use of force escalation model/wheel for your perusal; you start in the centre, and work your way out until the specific problem is solved. It's a Canadian model (note the French), I can't say it's exactly what was in use when I last trained (almost 5 years for me) because it's an evolutionary process, but it's certainly very similar. Specific models also have to take into account jurisdictional variations and operational policy as well, police service training units usually ensure the model in use in training is the most current. In my case, all police officers in the Province had to qualify annually, failure to do so meant losing all your use of force equipment i.e. firearm, cuffs, baton, pepper spray & Taser, if so equipped, until you did.


                Only in Canada. In the USA we use a linear Continuum. But there is a lot of similarities.

                The key to any UoF, civilian or official, is the user's perception at the time that force is used.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                • #9
                  Yep, ...

                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Only in Canada. In the USA we use a linear Continuum. But there is a lot of similarities.

                  The key to any UoF, civilian or official, is the user's perception at the time that force is used.
                  ... and training.
                  "I am Groot"
                  - Groot

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                  • #10
                    Disregard the white trash and illegal comments. LE doesn't need to negotiate with someone carrying a weapon, do what you are told or suffer the consequences. Don't **** with the POLICE!
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                    • #11
                      Just an update. The widow filed a lawsuit for $25 million. Hispanic activists have flown into town and the big rally is scheduled for tomorrow. (Saturday). Of course, everybody is declaring this to be a peaceful assembly, however it isn't planned to end until 6PM, dark here. I hope it all works out well.
                      My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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                      • #12
                        He's Hispanic so it's not a huge story.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting.

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                          • #14
                            Jackson and Sharpton won't bother to show, Holder, or his replacement, won't bother to investigate, Obama will not send anyone to the funeral.

                            Why? Wrong skin color for promoting the Democratic Socialist's Racist agenda.
                            “Breaking News,”

                            “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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                            • #15
                              Today's the public rally for the shooting. It started at noon. This is the latest update.

                              http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2015/0...-violence.html
                              My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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