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  • ISIS hostages; should we care?

    As usual, you have to go to Europe to see something critical of Obama in the Media... unless you look at FOX

    Nothing was done to save US hostages from Isil', says mother of murdered journalist

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11399260/Nothing-was-done-to-save-US-hostages-from-Isil-says-mother-of-murdered-journalist.html



    Yeah, Kayla Muller is no more, she just wanted to help Syrian Kids and so on... so she went to that hell-hole thinking that the US Govt was her lifeline in case of trouble.
    But our Govt didn't care.
    So why should the rest of us?

    Honestly, these dingbats go out there to be their own brand of hero, without even a pistol or the will to defend themselves. Its like committing suicide in a way to get yourself a nice glossy obituary. Of course, I doubt any of them look ahead and contemplate being beaten, raped and tortured to death in the process.

    Shouldn't official policy be more clearly defined?
    In other words- "Your on your own as soon as you leave the US and immerse yourself in that part of the world that hates you for being born American, period."

    In light of Obama's policy of doing nothing in any event, its overstating the obvious, but the people going out there don't seem very bright in the first place. Maybe a PSA in bold face will save a few of them.
    Its not like anything will save them once they are caught.
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

  • #2
    If you think your calling is to go to a war zone full of crazies killing each other to do "compassionate" work or whatever and the crazies whack your stupid @$$ I don't hold a whole lot of sympathy for you.

    That is the risk you should have accepted before going.

    Negotiating with terrorists for hostage releases and paying a ransom is simply a way to ensure more of the same.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
      As usual, you have to go to Europe to see something critical of Obama in the Media... unless you look at FOX

      Nothing was done to save US hostages from Isil', says mother of murdered journalist

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11399260/Nothing-was-done-to-save-US-hostages-from-Isil-says-mother-of-murdered-journalist.html



      Yeah, Kayla Muller is no more, she just wanted to help Syrian Kids and so on... so she went to that hell-hole thinking that the US Govt was her lifeline in case of trouble.
      But our Govt didn't care.
      So why should the rest of us?

      Honestly, these dingbats go out there to be their own brand of hero, without even a pistol or the will to defend themselves. Its like committing suicide in a way to get yourself a nice glossy obituary. Of course, I doubt any of them look ahead and contemplate being beaten, raped and tortured to death in the process.

      Shouldn't official policy be more clearly defined?
      In other words- "Your on your own as soon as you leave the US and immerse yourself in that part of the world that hates you for being born American, period."

      In light of Obama's policy of doing nothing in any event, its overstating the obvious, but the people going out there don't seem very bright in the first place. Maybe a PSA in bold face will save a few of them.
      Its not like anything will save them once they are caught.
      That is not US policy, not current or past.
      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
      “To talk of many things:
      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
      Of cabbages—and kings—
      And why the sea is boiling hot—
      And whether pigs have wings.”
      ― Lewis Carroll

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
        As usual, you have to go to Europe to see something critical of Obama in the Media... unless you look at FOX

        Nothing was done to save US hostages from Isil', says mother of murdered journalist

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11399260/Nothing-was-done-to-save-US-hostages-from-Isil-says-mother-of-murdered-journalist.html



        Yeah, Kayla Muller is no more, she just wanted to help Syrian Kids and so on... so she went to that hell-hole thinking that the US Govt was her lifeline in case of trouble.
        But our Govt didn't care.
        So why should the rest of us?

        Honestly, these dingbats go out there to be their own brand of hero, without even a pistol or the will to defend themselves. Its like committing suicide in a way to get yourself a nice glossy obituary. Of course, I doubt any of them look ahead and contemplate being beaten, raped and tortured to death in the process.

        Shouldn't official policy be more clearly defined?
        In other words- "Your on your own as soon as you leave the US and immerse yourself in that part of the world that hates you for being born American, period."

        In light of Obama's policy of doing nothing in any event, its overstating the obvious, but the people going out there don't seem very bright in the first place. Maybe a PSA in bold face will save a few of them.
        Its not like anything will save them once they are caught.
        When has this not been the case? In the missionary field it has always been understood that when you cross the border you are entering dangerous country and if you get grabbed the community will try to get you back, but don't expect a SEAL team. These are the risks of the business. I can't imagine humanitarian workers are any different in education.

        Most people who do this sort of thing know the risks and choose to accept them. They're not stupid. They choose the risk because they believe in the cause. By the logic you're using, soldiers and anyone else who believes in risking their life for a greater good are also stupid.

        Your critique is rather hateful. Yes I will care that she was murdered. She took a risk and the risk ended badly. I have no doubt that she entered into that field eyes wide open, knowing this was a possibility. I will respect her for her sacrifice rather than dumping on her in such a disrespectful fashion.

        I agree that when you cross into hostile country, you are on your own. And I agree people need to know that. This is the way it should be. The government can't be around to bail out every person that gets themselves into trouble. As I said, this is the risk of the business. But when someone knows that and chooses to take the risk, I'm not going to demean them by calling them stupid. That's uncalled for.
        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

        Comment


        • #5
          I second that.
          Wack tac mac hey.
          Regards.
          Grishnak.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
            ... But when someone knows that and chooses to take the risk, I'm not going to demean them by calling them stupid. That's uncalled for.
            I don't think they do understand that, which is why I posted all that.

            And I'll call them stupid because the alternative is to call them insane, but maybe that's the right thing to do...
            Insanity is repeating the same pattern of behavior over and over again, and expecting different results. These energetic young people keep going out there into dark and dingy parts of the world to make them a better place... and the second their backs are turned it goes right back to being exactly the same as it was before they got there.
            And if they don't have a knife in their back when they turned around, they have to consider themselves lucky.
            Very lucky.
            It is futile, crazy and worthless, the whole endeavor.

            Haiti, that entire nation is geared to an economy based on foreign aid. How's that working for them?
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
              I don't think they do understand that, which is why I posted all that.

              And I'll call them stupid because the alternative is to call them insane, but maybe that's the right thing to do...
              Insanity is repeating the same pattern of behavior over and over again, and expecting different results. These energetic young people keep going out there into dark and dingy parts of the world to make them a better place... and the second their backs are turned it goes right back to being exactly the same as it was before they got there.
              And if they don't have a knife in their back when they turned around, they have to consider themselves lucky.
              Very lucky.
              It is futile, crazy and worthless, the whole endeavor.

              Haiti, that entire nation is geared to an economy based on foreign aid. How's that working for them?
              People who jump into hostile territory to feed hungry children do it because hungry children need feeding. Whether or not the terrorists reform their evil ways because of this is not part of the equation. The kids still need food. And actually there are many times when it does have an effect. You never change the world overnight. But there's a parable well known among missionaries and aid workers.



              No one's asking you to do what they do or bail them out when things get rough. But it isn't too much to ask to show an ounce of respect to them and their families.
              A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

              Comment


              • #8
                Personally, I feel bad that this woman and others are killed doing what they consider to be something for the greater good. I can't say I feel all that surprised or that her family should have any anger about the government's lack of effort...she made her choice and paid the price that she must have known might be required. I don't feel we should send the troops in to try to rescue someone who makes the choice to put themselves on the line like this. I don't feel that it's the same as when a GI gets captured, though, because the GI didn't necessarily volunteer to go to a war zone, even though they volunteered to join the military. The GI must go where he or she is ordered, they don't just decide to go to Syria on their own. Also, when the military sends troops into a hostile environment they can also plan for contingencies like how to rescue a downed airman, captured soldier etc, so the machinery is in place for this...when a civilian voluntarily puts themselves in those situations they don't have the built-in infrastructure behind them, so they really are going it alone.
                The government shouldn't be required to respond, but it would help if we didn't trade terrorists for deserters and set a precedent that we will negotiate with terrorists after all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                  No one's asking you to do what they do or bail them out when things get rough.
                  That leads to another point- If Obama had done anything about it, he would have given the Terrorists something that they want.
                  Maybe we should count our blessings that he was too busy fund-raising between rounds of Golf, again.

                  Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                  But it isn't too much to ask to show an ounce of respect to them and their families.
                  Today it is.
                  I want to create a social stigma, I want people to stop nodding and smiling the next time some promising youngster goes prancing by saying "I'm off to save the world!"
                  I want the reply to be "What the hell is wrong with you?!"
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                    That leads to another point- If Obama had done anything about it, he would have given the Terrorists something that they want.
                    Maybe we should count our blessings that he was too busy fund-raising between rounds of Golf, again.


                    Today it is.
                    I want to create a social stigma, I want people to stop nodding and smiling the next time some promising youngster goes prancing by saying "I'm off to save the world!"
                    I want the reply to be "What the hell is wrong with you?!"
                    Like hell it is.

                    They aren't trying to save the world. Just help people out. If that offends you then that is your problem. If you don't want to do it then that's fine. No one's asking you to step up. But being an hole to the bereaved family is inexcusable and don't expect anything less than contempt for it.
                    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My viewpoint is this: if Kayla Muller wanted to help kids, there are enough kids in need of help in my burg to keep her busy for the rest of her natural span of years.

                      But no, these kids are not trendy or cool, so they weren't of interest to her.

                      She decided it was more important to help Syrian kids, so let the Syrians worry about what happened to her.

                      The funny thing is that in the final accounting she didn't help anyone. She just threw her life away for nothing.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                        L...But being an hole to the bereaved family is inexcusable and don't expect anything less than contempt for it.
                        I didn't drag her family into this in any way, shape or form.
                        YOU did.
                        Its a cheap shot and I expected better from you.

                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                        The funny thing is that in the final accounting she didn't help anyone. She just threw her life away for nothing.
                        Spot-on.
                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We should care, because sociopathic barbarity should be a concern to us all, but as TAG pointed out, people gong in harm's way know what to expect, and when it happens it cannot be a national burden.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I do some volunteer work with an organization that sends in rapid relief teams to areas hit by disasters, be it earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, typhoons, droughts, etc..

                            recently they emailed me to see if I was interested in deploying to Northern Iraq to work in the refugee camps to provide medical aid. While I have been throughout Asia, the Caribbean, there is NO damn way that I would step foot into that sandbox cesspool! While my heart goes out to those living in horrific conditions, one's have to use common sense when entering these locations. At some point, you need to be selfish to the point of realizing that should you be taken hostage, your chances of survival are pretty much 0% and the pain it will cost your family and the stress it will cause your government just aren't worth it.
                            "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                            - Col. David Hackworth

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                              When has this not been the case? In the missionary field it has always been understood that when you cross the border you are entering dangerous country and if you get grabbed the community will try to get you back, but don't expect a SEAL team. These are the risks of the business. I can't imagine humanitarian workers are any different in education.

                              Most people who do this sort of thing know the risks and choose to accept them. They're not stupid. They choose the risk because they believe in the cause. By the logic you're using, soldiers and anyone else who believes in risking their life for a greater good are also stupid.

                              Your critique is rather hateful. Yes I will care that she was murdered. She took a risk and the risk ended badly. I have no doubt that she entered into that field eyes wide open, knowing this was a possibility. I will respect her for her sacrifice rather than dumping on her in such a disrespectful fashion.

                              I agree that when you cross into hostile country, you are on your own. And I agree people need to know that. This is the way it should be. The government can't be around to bail out every person that gets themselves into trouble. As I said, this is the risk of the business. But when someone knows that and chooses to take the risk, I'm not going to demean them by calling them stupid. That's uncalled for.
                              Mostly agree with you sentiment, however she was a citizen of your country and thus should it ever be a realistic possibility a rescue attempt should always be made. Also vengeance should be exacted on Isis for her death.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment

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