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Obama and Moral Equivalence: the Crusades and ISIS...

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  • #91
    Obama is being sympathetic towards the Arabs, because he is trying to defend his 'soft stance' towards Iran/Iranian affiliated groups. It is passive-aggression towards his critics in the government. Obama is an idealist, but he is hopelessly naive. He thinks everyone "should just get along." Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but he mistakenly believes the Iranians/ other Middle Eastern enemies think the same way: that they want peace and reconciliation with the West.

    He believes that by making himself appear sympathetic towards Muslims/Arabs, they will reciprocate those feelings and alienate Iran, who will then have no choice but to be friendlier towards the West. This is what he plans to be his 'legacy:' peace and reconciliation with America's enemies. Look at what he has done in Cuba. It is the same principle.

    What he does not realize, though, is that his actions are viewed as weakness. They will only precipitate more violence and anti-Americanism. Once you show weakness, all respect and credibility you have immediately goes out the window in the eyes of these people. We can see it unfolding in Cuba: Castro wants Guantanamo Bay back.

    The United States must not forget its role in the world. We should always strive for peace, but the moment we turn into a doormat for dictators and extremists is the moment we abandon everything that made this country great. To do so, as Obama is mistakenly doing out of admirable, but misguided desires for world peace, would be a catastrophic mistake.

    "We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other."
    - G.C. Marshall
    Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
      Obama is being sympathetic towards the Arabs, because he is trying to defend his 'soft stance' towards Iran/Iranian affiliated groups. It is passive-aggression towards his critics in the government. Obama is an idealist, but he is hopelessly naive. He thinks everyone "should just get along." Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but he mistakenly believes the Iranians/ other Middle Eastern enemies think the same way: that they want peace and reconciliation with the West.

      He believes that by making himself appear sympathetic towards Muslims/Arabs, they will reciprocate those feelings and alienate Iran, who will then have no choice but to be friendlier towards the West. This is what he plans to be his 'legacy:' peace and reconciliation with America's enemies. Look at what he has done in Cuba. It is the same principle.

      What he does not realize, though, is that his actions are viewed as weakness. They will only precipitate more violence and anti-Americanism. Once you show weakness, all respect and credibility you have immediately goes out the window in the eyes of these people. We can see it unfolding in Cuba: Castro wants Guantanamo Bay back.

      The United States must not forget its role in the world. We should always strive for peace, but the moment we turn into a doormat for dictators and extremists is the moment we abandon everything that made this country great. To do so, as Obama is mistakenly doing out of admirable, but misguided desires for world peace, would be a catastrophic mistake.


      Yes, he is hopelessly naive and self absorbed as well.
      He tends to think that the power of his voice is such that people will give up centuries of war if he just talks to them about it.

      As you note, appeasement doesn't work.
      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
        Yes, he is hopelessly naive and self absorbed as well.
        He tends to think that the power of his voice is such that people will give up centuries of war if he just talks to them about it.

        As you note, appeasement doesn't work.
        The man is an Idealist which is not always a bad thing to be, but it is in this case!
        As I have stated several times, to Obama giving a speech is taking action.
        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Sergio View Post
          How do your personal experiences make you knowledgeable about the facts of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict?
          I didn't say that, and either you need to learn to read or stop creating strawmen to cover up the fact that you continue to err both historically and factually in your postings.

          You are clearly emerging as a marplot.

          Sincerely,
          M
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            With respect to BO's effort at moral equivalence, I am still trying to figure out what the point of it was other than just a jab at people he doesn't like (i.e. Christians and the West)
            Even if his statement was accurate, it has absolutely no relevance to the issue.
            Whatever European Christians may have done 500-1000 years ago cannot be seen by any reasonable person as a justification for what ISIS is doing now.
            If Austrians suddenly started killing Turks for no reason would he remind those Turks that they had tried to conquer Vienna more than 500 years ago ?
            We are constantly reminded of how smart he is, but his statements reveal a complete lack of understanding of the issue. It is an argument that I would expect from a child rather than the "smartest president evah".
            How could any reasonable man (let alone the smartest man in history) be so willing to accept the propaganda from hate groups?
            Can we expect him to defend the KKK by parroting their propaganda next?
            My only answer to that is that to my mind Obama and his minions such as Susan Rice, are not concerned with the interests, strategic or other, of the United States. Their actions and words clearly indicate that they are attempting to weaken our country and they are doing it on purpose.

            They have no recognizable foreign policy and retired general officers, such as Lynch and Mattis, are speaking out in order to point out the failure of the administration in the area of foreign policy. The administration is hurting the country immeasurably and if Hillary Clinton is elected that trend will continue.

            Sincerely,
            M
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Massena View Post
              I didn't say that, and either you need to learn to read or stop creating strawmen to cover up the fact that you continue to err both historically and factually in your postings.

              You are clearly emerging as a marplot.

              Sincerely,
              M
              So throwing in your experience of being under rocket fire and shooting at people had bugger all to do with the facts of the Israeli-Palestinian situation or my point to someone else that Israel was not just a bystander? Glad we cleared that up.
              "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
              G.B Shaw

              "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
              Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                So throwing in your experience of being under rocket fire and shooting at people had bugger all to do with the facts of the Israeli-Palestinian situation or my point to someone else that Israel was not just a bystander? Glad we cleared that up.
                This is what I posted:

                'If Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians in general, not to mention Iran, would leave Israel alone and not either attack her or support those who do with the specific and stated intent of driving the Israelis into the sea and destroying the Israeli state, Israel would not retaliate.
                How would you like to live in an area that is frequently being rocketed or under continued threat from terrorism or terrorists.
                Your comment on Israel is both historically nave and disingenuous per your usual efforts.
                Have you ever been shot at or rocketed? It isn't pleasant. You should avail yourself of the experience.
                And, yes, I've been under artillery and rocket fire. I also had the distinct pleasure of shooting back and hitting what I shot at.'


                You have ignored the first part of the posting, which was in your statement regarding Israel and your limp-wristed attempt to lay blame for Israel's problems at the feet of the Israeli's. Ignoring that portion of the posting, which was the most important part, is typical of how you handle material that either disagrees with what you purport to believe or that demonstrates how bankrupt your usual argument is.

                And the example of being rocketed, since you obviously missed it, is in reference to the periodic Hamas habit of firing rockets unprovoked into Israel.

                I would have to assume that the use of analogy is beyond your ken.

                Sincerely,
                M
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post
                  This is what I posted:

                  'If Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians in general, not to mention Iran, would leave Israel alone and not either attack her or support those who do with the specific and stated intent of driving the Israelis into the sea and destroying the Israeli state, Israel would not retaliate.
                  How would you like to live in an area that is frequently being rocketed or under continued threat from terrorism or terrorists.
                  Your comment on Israel is both historically nave and disingenuous per your usual efforts.
                  Have you ever been shot at or rocketed? It isn't pleasant. You should avail yourself of the experience.
                  And, yes, I've been under artillery and rocket fire. I also had the distinct pleasure of shooting back and hitting what I shot at.'


                  You have ignored the first part of the posting, which was in your statement regarding Israel and your limp-wristed attempt to lay blame for Israel's problems at the feet of the Israeli's. Ignoring that portion of the posting, which was the most important part, is typical of how you handle material that either disagrees with what you purport to believe or that demonstrates how bankrupt your usual argument is.

                  And the example of being rocketed, since you obviously missed it, is in reference to the periodic Hamas habit of firing rockets unprovoked into Israel.

                  I would have to assume that the use of analogy is beyond your ken.

                  Sincerely,
                  M
                  I ignored or missed nothing - given that the comment you replied to had already said that I do not see Israel as just a bystander in that conflict. The rockets being fired, which I disagree with and should not happen, do not occur in a vacuum.

                  I would have to assume that you already knew that since you actually replied to a comment.

                  Could you explain how it is limp-wristed to say that Israeli policy creates much of the problems it faces? That is not to say that everything that occurs is Israel's fault but they bear a great deal of the responsibility for the mess. Also what do you mean by limp wristed?
                  "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                  G.B Shaw

                  "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                  Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                    I ignored or missed nothing - given that the comment you replied to had already said that I do not see Israel as just a bystander in that conflict. The rockets being fired, which I disagree with and should not happen, do not occur in a vacuum.
                    The reason the rockets are fired at civilian targets is that the Palestinian terrorist organizations, among others, want Israel destroyed which is what you are apparently overlooking. That is their stated objective which you don't mention with your 'just a bystander' comment. In short, what you are posting is nothing but disingenuous garbage.

                    Sincerely,
                    M
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      The reason the rockets are fired at civilian targets is that the Palestinian terrorist organizations, among others, want Israel destroyed which is what you are apparently overlooking. That is their stated objective which you don't mention with your 'just a bystander' comment. In short, what you are posting is nothing but disingenuous garbage.

                      Sincerely,
                      M
                      You really seem to struggle with basic comprehension and perhaps honesty. The comment you had replied to simply said, in reply to Nichols, that Israel was not a bystander in this conflict. It was a reply to his point that people see Israel as the aggressor in the conflict despite them being attacked by rockets. It was not a discussion on the entirety of the conflict or my blaming Israel for everything.

                      The fact that you see this so simplistically, do not seem to know the history of it and have to throw out insults if someone disagrees with you is disappointing - but not surprising. Once again what is limp-wristed about having a different point of view to you on the conflict?
                      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                      G.B Shaw

                      "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                      Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                        You really seem to struggle with basic comprehension and perhaps honesty. The comment you had replied to simply said, in reply, to Nichols that Israel was not a bystander in this conflict. It was a reply to his point that people see Israel as the aggressor in the conflict despite them being attacked by rockets. It was not a discussion on the entirety of the conflict.

                        The fact that you see this simplistically, do not seem to know the history of it and have to throw out insults if someone disagrees with you is disappointing - but not surprising. Once again what is limp-wristed about having a different point of view to you on the conflict?
                        It isn't merely a 'different point of view' but the attempt to blame the Israelis as well as an apparent attempt at moral equivalence between the Israeli state and its right to exist and terrorist organizations and states that actively seek Israel's destruction. The latter 'point of view' is morally reprehensible.

                        You don't seem to be able to realize that.

                        Sincerely,
                        M
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                          I ignored or missed nothing - given that the comment you replied to had already said that I do not see Israel as just a bystander in that conflict. The rockets being fired, which I disagree with and should not happen, do not occur in a vacuum.

                          I would have to assume that you already knew that since you actually replied to a comment.

                          Could you explain how it is limp-wristed to say that Israeli policy creates much of the problems it faces? That is not to say that everything that occurs is Israel's fault but they bear a great deal of the responsibility for the mess. Also what do you mean by limp wristed?
                          Good grief! Are you really as ignorant as you pretend to be?

                          Israel's "policy" is to be allowed to exist. That is the right of any nation.

                          If you cannot grasp such a basic concept, what the devil are you even discussing in the first place?
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                            It isn't merely a 'different point of view' but the attempt to blame the Israelis as well as an apparent attempt at moral equivalence between the Israeli state and its right to exist and terrorist organizations and states that actively seek Israel's destruction. The latter 'point of view' is morally reprehensible.

                            You don't seem to be able to realize that.

                            Sincerely,
                            M
                            Large population influxes into a region particularly when it is more of a 'push process' than pull is obviously is going to cause ill-feeling amongst the people who already live there.....

                            And the Israeli state has conducted some questionable operations in the past....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                              It isn't merely a 'different point of view' but the attempt to blame the Israelis as well as an apparent attempt at moral equivalence between the Israeli state and its right to exist and terrorist organizations and states that actively seek Israel's destruction. The latter 'point of view' is morally reprehensible.

                              You don't seem to be able to realize that.

                              Sincerely,
                              M
                              Bovine excrement. You have, as I said, taken one comment on one specific thing and made up a whole load of nonsense as to what it means. There are multiple sides in this conflict and all share some responsibility for the mess - some more than others. Perhaps you should start a thread on this since you have taken this so far off-topic.

                              Just in case we have different national uses of the phrase what did you mean by limp-wristed and how is it limp-wristed to have a different opinion on this.
                              "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                              G.B Shaw

                              "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                              Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                                Obama got an undergraduate degree in political science, one of the most useless and easiest Liberal Arts degrees to obtain. He then went on to get a law degree he really never used. It is also likely, given what we do know of his academic years, that he was a mediocre scholar at best.
                                You just finding this out?
                                My worst jump story:
                                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                                No lie.

                                ~
                                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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