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  • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    As soon as you use derogatory terms like Gorebot, you've lost the intellectual argument.
    I didn't use "Gorebot." I used "Gorebal Warming. This is the irrational belief that Al Gore, and others like him (like say, Bill Nye) are somehow experts on the subject of climate change when they are the exact opposite. Gorebal Warming is the acceptance that popular propaganda on this subject, as most recently espoused by know-nothings like Greta Thunberg. She believes in Gorebal Warming, not climate change.
    Further, renewables will be more expensive in the short term, due to R&D costs. Unless you want to live in the past, or perhaps move to Delhi, uncontrolled use of polluting chemicals is to be avoided.
    "Renewables" like solar and wind are losers. They are expensive now, expensive in the future, and basically unworkable to meet our energy needs. Countries heavily invested in them like Germany, Spain, Australia, or Denmark are finding that out the hard way. You simply can't get around the physics and chemistry of this problem.

    What I want to do is live in the future, and that future rationally is nuclear power (fission or fusion) + natural gas and hydrogen for portable energy. Hydrogen works as the best portable fuel. Battery cars are simply put stupid with a capital STUPID.

    Tesla just had another box of nails hammered into it's coffin:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/04/tesl...ty-agency.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...re-update.html

    Basically, the batteries in these cars are unsafe. There are design flaws like the retractable door handles that require power to operate. A person here in the US recently died in a crash of his Tesla because the doors refused to open after the crash and the battery caught fire.

    Then there's the "brick" stories...

    https://venturebeat.com/2012/02/22/tesla-brick/

    https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...r-power-outage

    Bernie Madoff managed to stave off prison for decades with a truly massive Ponzi scheme. Tesla is doing essentially the same thing. They make a crap car that sells to a niche market, have never turned a profit, and somehow keep raking in billions in investment. The money's going to run out. It always does. When it does, people are going to go to prison over Tesla.





    Comment


    • Some quick 'archive" for future references ...
      ...
      The natural cycle that people refer to regarding large scale climate change is the time between ice ages and warm periods. The long cycle time is about 100,000 years. We can spend around 20% of the cycle in an interglacial and around 80% in an ice age, depending on where we are in these cycle influences.

      What causes this are the natural cycles that influence earth climate – the Milankovitch Cycles?

      The Milankovich cycles are caused by changes in the shape of the Earth's orbit around the sun, the tilt of the Earth's rotation axis, and the wobble of our axis. The mass and movement of the other planets in our solar system actually affect the Earth orbit just as our planetary mass similarly affects their orbits.

      As the Earth's orbit changes, so too does the amount of sunlight that falls on different latitudes and in seasons. The amount of sunlight received in the summer at high northern latitudes appears to be especially important to determining whether the Earth is in an ice age or not. When the northern summer sun is strong, the Earth tends to be in a warm period. When it is weak we tend to be in an ice age. As we come out of an ice age, the sea level rises about 400 feet, and we enjoy a warm period 'like' the one we are in now. That is the natural cycle, brief warm periods followed by an ice age about every 100 thousand years.
      ...



      http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...kovitch-cycles

      ....
      ALSO:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
      ....
      https://www.livescience.com/64813-mi...ch-cycles.html
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

      Comment


      • I can't speak for any other country but in Australia at least, solar power for domestic use seems to have been commercially relatively successful (emphasis on relatively). There is of course currently no real sign that it might become a primary substitute major power source but here we are blessed (some would say cursed) with considerably stronger/more direct sunshine than many other countries and I think that is a factor of some significance.

        What does the future hold? I'm not sure but already, some designers have come up with a "substitute solar roof"; that is, instead of having a conventional roof with solar panels added, soon we may see entire roofs made up of the latest type - and, we would hope, most efficient - solar panels, that will also be structural. Claims are being made that they will contribute to relative reduction of overall home-building cost (that is, compared with a conventional roof and added solar panels).

        Regardless, it will be interesting to see how these go. It's likely that solar panels, even in such a sun-drenched environment, will not ever fully replace mains electricity but it looks as if they COULD become a very worthwhile supplement, with greater efficiency at a relatively low (per m2) cost?
        Time will tell, I guess.
        Last edited by panther3485; 05 Nov 19, 01:30.
        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

        Comment


        • The Arabs had a means to make ice in the desert by using tunnels and chimneys and trays of water. One could do the same in the Mohave dessert and pipe water from the Pacific to both refine water and create power from turbines. The cost would probably be much cheaper and far less polluting than solar panels. Really who cares about the micro climate of that hellhole, Mankind is more important than a bunch of snakes and scorpions and cactus.
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

            I didn't use "Gorebot." I used "Gorebal Warming. This is the irrational belief that Al Gore, and others like him (like say, Bill Nye) are somehow experts on the subject of climate change when they are the exact opposite. Gorebal Warming is the acceptance that popular propaganda on this subject, as most recently espoused by know-nothings like Greta Thunberg. She believes in Gorebal Warming, not climate change.


            "Renewables" like solar and wind are losers. They are expensive now, expensive in the future, and basically unworkable to meet our energy needs. Countries heavily invested in them like Germany, Spain, Australia, or Denmark are finding that out the hard way. You simply can't get around the physics and chemistry of this problem.

            What I want to do is live in the future, and that future rationally is nuclear power (fission or fusion) + natural gas and hydrogen for portable energy. Hydrogen works as the best portable fuel. Battery cars are simply put stupid with a capital STUPID.

            Tesla just had another box of nails hammered into it's coffin:

            https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/04/tesl...ty-agency.html

            https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...re-update.html

            Basically, the batteries in these cars are unsafe. There are design flaws like the retractable door handles that require power to operate. A person here in the US recently died in a crash of his Tesla because the doors refused to open after the crash and the battery caught fire.

            Then there's the "brick" stories...

            https://venturebeat.com/2012/02/22/tesla-brick/

            https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...r-power-outage

            Bernie Madoff managed to stave off prison for decades with a truly massive Ponzi scheme. Tesla is doing essentially the same thing. They make a crap car that sells to a niche market, have never turned a profit, and somehow keep raking in billions in investment. The money's going to run out. It always does. When it does, people are going to go to prison over Tesla.




            Gorebot or Gorebal same difference. Its still a derogatory term with no intellectual value. I also said like, so your comment was unnecessary.

            So one form of potential energy fails. Should we stop all R&D into other energy forms?
            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

            Comment


            • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
              Some quick 'archive" for future references ...
              ...
              The natural cycle that people refer to regarding large scale climate change is the time between ice ages and warm periods. The long cycle time is about 100,000 years. We can spend around 20% of the cycle in an interglacial and around 80% in an ice age, depending on where we are in these cycle influences.

              What causes this are the natural cycles that influence earth climate – the Milankovitch Cycles?

              The Milankovich cycles are caused by changes in the shape of the Earth's orbit around the sun, the tilt of the Earth's rotation axis, and the wobble of our axis. The mass and movement of the other planets in our solar system actually affect the Earth orbit just as our planetary mass similarly affects their orbits.

              As the Earth's orbit changes, so too does the amount of sunlight that falls on different latitudes and in seasons. The amount of sunlight received in the summer at high northern latitudes appears to be especially important to determining whether the Earth is in an ice age or not. When the northern summer sun is strong, the Earth tends to be in a warm period. When it is weak we tend to be in an ice age. As we come out of an ice age, the sea level rises about 400 feet, and we enjoy a warm period 'like' the one we are in now. That is the natural cycle, brief warm periods followed by an ice age about every 100 thousand years.
              ...



              http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...kovitch-cycles

              ....
              ALSO:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
              ....
              https://www.livescience.com/64813-mi...ch-cycles.html
              Do you actually ever read the articles you link, because they do not support your POV .

              Milankovitch Cycles

              From your link: http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...kovitch-cycles

              The natural cycle is range bound and well understood, largely constrained by the Milankovitch cycles. Since the beginning of the industrial age, humankind has caused such a dramatic departure from the natural cycle, that it is hard to imagine anyone thinking that we are still in the natural cycle..
              image_preview.png
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

              Comment


              • For those that accuse me of being tin hat, the sky is falling, you're off your meds, here it is, here is the proof, here is the official call for population control.

                https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/po...150004993.html
                “Breaking News,”

                “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                Comment


                • Well, there's this from the Left. I've been told by several radical Leftists who know the person running this site that he's serious and that they've signed up (thanks for that guys!). What this guy wants is for you to sign up promising not to have children, thus ending your contribution to population growth.

                  http://vhemt.org/

                  We can hope everyone on the Left signs up and they eventually die out as a species...

                  Comment


                  • Voluntary Human Extinction Movement has been around for ages. As such, they are not a threat to humanity. Their members will just live long and die out.

                    Groups like Planned Parenthood, North Korea, China, and The Religion of Peace are a real threat. Planned Parenthood practices genocide in inner city Black neighborhoods. China has a policy of birth and population control. They also round up the undesirable and political opponent and place them in reeducation or concentration camps. North Korea is just starving their people to death as they enslave those that question the activities of their regime. The Religion of Peace will just behead or blow up anyone that doesn't submit to their religious slavery, or live an alternative lifestyle.

                    So are Democrats on the far left That are pushing to eliminate the Constitution in favor of Socialism. Your existence in their society would be dependent on what you are worth to the collective. Much like Nazi Germany, the sick, the elderly, the handicapped, the homeless, the declared insane, political opponents, and the undesirables, would be rounded up and eliminated in a final solution.
                    “Breaking News,”

                    “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                    Comment


                    • I'd say a massively growing danger is something like China's social credit system. It doesn't even have to be the government running one of these. You simply have a company that does it, like a credit score.



                      A private company doing this could collect "public" data and then score you and everyone else whether you want to be scored or not. They could sell the information to those wanting it or provide it even free to anyone using paid subscribers and advertising to pay for their site.

                      The danger here is that it becomes the basis for decision making by who knows who. The company is off the hook saying that the information is "public" and they're just providing a service. But, when it becomes common enough that it's like a credit score, you could potentially be screwed for off hand comments, political beliefs, associating with someone even unknowingly. It could be Big Brother on steroids.

                      You don't need a "final solution" when you can marginalize someone into despair, poverty, and homelessness simply through social media.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        I'd say a massively growing danger is something like China's social credit system. It doesn't even have to be the government running one of these. You simply have a company that does it, like a credit score.



                        A private company doing this could collect "public" data and then score you and everyone else whether you want to be scored or not. They could sell the information to those wanting it or provide it even free to anyone using paid subscribers and advertising to pay for their site.

                        The danger here is that it becomes the basis for decision making by who knows who. The company is off the hook saying that the information is "public" and they're just providing a service. But, when it becomes common enough that it's like a credit score, you could potentially be screwed for off hand comments, political beliefs, associating with someone even unknowingly. It could be Big Brother on steroids.

                        You don't need a "final solution" when you can marginalize someone into despair, poverty, and homelessness simply through social media.
                        It sounds like a good way to really make everyone unhappy with the government. It is very Chinese however.
                        We hunt the hunters

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                          <snip> ... Regardless, it will be interesting to see how these go. It's likely that solar panels, even in such a sun-drenched environment, will not ever fully replace mains electricity but it looks as if they COULD become a very worthwhile supplement, with greater efficiency at a relatively low (per m2) cost?
                          Time will tell, I guess.
                          speaking of which ....

                          Would an offer like this tempt anyone you know?

                          https://solarscanner.com.au/r/a//art...CXffDWiiKzGUOs
                          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            (…)
                            It's little print there, but as I understand it the system relies on 1)Financial, Criminal, and government records and 2)Data collected on the internet.

                            1) is of course protected by privacy legislation and no private company should have legal access to all those.

                            2) is entirely dependent on my willingness to offer "data" on the internet.

                            So unless they can force me to keep a "smartphone" or something like it with GPS included, on my person their available info will be extremely limited.

                            Of course absence of available info could be regarded as "suspicious" in itself - and in many ways it already is today
                            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                            Comment


                            • We already have the Chinese equivalent of their social credit system. It is called the NSA.

                              From the official site. https://nsa.gov1.info/data/

                              In the past, domestic law enforcement agencies collected data AFTER a suspect had been identified. This often resulted in lost intelligence and missed opportunities. But what if data could be collected in advance, BEFORE the target was known? What if the mere act of collecting data could result in the identification of new targets?

                              What if we could build a national data warehouse containing information about every person in the United States? Thanks to secret interpretations of the PATRIOT ACT, top-secret Fourth Amendment exceptions allowed by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, and broad cooperation at the local, state, and federal level, we can!
                              “Breaking News,”

                              “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                                It's little print there, but as I understand it the system relies on 1)Financial, Criminal, and government records and 2)Data collected on the internet.

                                1) is of course protected by privacy legislation and no private company should have legal access to all those.

                                2) is entirely dependent on my willingness to offer "data" on the internet.

                                So unless they can force me to keep a "smartphone" or something like it with GPS included, on my person their available info will be extremely limited.

                                Of course absence of available info could be regarded as "suspicious" in itself - and in many ways it already is today
                                Ah, but if such company were in cahoots with other companies and they tracked your use of credit cards, buying, etc., along with other non-internet data, they might score you on your avoidance of using social media and the internet too. They might hit you with a negative score for being per their model "antisocial."

                                It all depends on the model and other's willingness to use it. If companies and the government even want to use some scoring model-- credit scores are a perfect example-- then they're going to use it. You can have a poor credit score for not or even never using credit. Doesn't matter if you have plenty of wealth and pay in cash, the model that determines your score is how you use credit. Paying loans on time, having lots of credit available runs your score up.

                                So, in a social model, not interacting could be interpreted by the model as you being antisocial and lower your score.

                                Comment

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