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  • Originally posted by bill shack View Post
    It just makes me sick when i look around and see what we have done to this planet. just look at katrina hurricane, hurricane sandy, those hurricanes that devastated huston , porto rico etc and now dorian taking out the bahamas, these are level 5 hurricanes. the scientists predicted stuff like this would happen , and climate deniers just said it was fake news . you know 97% percent of all climate scientist say that this is caused by humans

    https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

    Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

    And yet the deniers still say this is not true.

    what will convince you that climate change is happening.

    when the cost of doing nothing to fight climate changes costs more than the cost to fix climate change .

    The Fourth National Climate Assessment, released November 23, predicts the U.S. economy will shrink by as much as 10 percent

    So go figure a loss of 10% think about it . 10% loss each and every year .
    Versus a 20-50% loss/increase in costs/expenses towards applying non-effective "solutions" that will adversely affect global economies, reduce food production (more starvings and deaths), and have no positive effect on reversing a Natural Process.

    Our larger danger comes from idjots that believe this flim-flam con and hype and are allowed to vote regarding such while remaining hypocrites whom live lifestyles that continue to contribute to such per their distorted and delusional Beliefs.
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bill shack View Post
      It just makes me sick when i look around and see what we have done to this planet. just look at katrina hurricane, hurricane sandy, those hurricanes that devastated huston , porto rico etc and now dorian taking out the bahamas, these are level 5 hurricanes. the scientists predicted stuff like this would happen , and climate deniers just said it was fake news . you know 97% percent of all climate scientist say that this is caused by humans

      https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

      Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

      And yet the deniers still say this is not true.

      what will convince you that climate change is happening.

      when the cost of doing nothing to fight climate changes costs more than the cost to fix climate change .

      The Fourth National Climate Assessment, released November 23, predicts the U.S. economy will shrink by as much as 10 percent

      So go figure a loss of 10% think about it . 10% loss each and every year .
      How much of the damage Hurricanes are doing now is due entirely to population growth along coastlines that get hit regularly by hurricanes?

      Hurricanes are nothing new. The worst in US history mostly occurred many decades ago.

      https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/usdeadly.asp

      Why? Because today, we have much better tracking and warning systems. We also build more buildings to be hurricane resistant than in the past. That's why Puerto Rico and the Bahamas got clobbered so badly. Both islands allow crappy construction, particularly residential construction to occur. If your house is a flimsy minimal design, then expect it to explode into a pile of rubbish come the first major hurricane to hit your island.

      Here's a shot of the Bahamas. Note the homes still standing are newer ones constructed to withstand hurricanes, which they did. It was the flimsy older homes that are gone with the wind.



      Here's another example.



      I'll bet that house still standing was nearly 100% damaged by debris from the flimsy ones around it exploding during the hurricane and that heavy debris pounding it. The house's framing is almost entirely intact. Even with partial loss of the roof exposing the attic, the roof stayed on.


      Want to bet on whether the US economy shrinks 10% or more in the next say 5 years? How about 10 years? 10% per year is simply a SWAGPOOYA by some deluded lunatic environmentalist(s). Ain't happening next year, ain't happening 10 years from now.
      I could see it happening if we had say global thermonuclear war, but a slight rise in temperature and CO2 in the atmosphere? Nonsense.

      Another sure way to kill the economy is going "Green." For example, the most costly energy per KWH countries are all ones that heavily invested in solar and wind like Germany, Spain, and Australia. Solar and wind are economic boondoggles that fail miserably. California is doing the same with skyrocketing energy costs.

      http://social-ecology.org/wp/wp-cont...Green-Econ.pdf

      https://www.greengrowthknowledge.org...ng-sustainable

      http://www.thegwpf.com/germanys-green-energy-failure/

      So I really don't care that 97% of climate scientists surveyed recommend a particular breakfast cereal or toothpaste, which is what their so-called "peer reviewed consensus" amounts to. History shows they've been dead flat wrong on their predictions for decades, and that a push to go Green is largely an unmitigated failure.
      Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 06 Sep 19, 15:14.

      Comment


      • Back on Sept. 8, 1900 ... long before human "industrial age" would have a significant effect, if any ... The Tempest At Galveston: 'We Knew There Was A Storm Coming, But We Had No Idea'

        https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56695...we-had-no-idea

        ...
        The Great Galveston Storm came ashore the night of Sept 8, 1900, with an estimated strength of a Category 4. It remains the deadliest natural disaster and the worst hurricane in U.S. history.

        From 6,000 to 12,000 people died on Galveston Island and the mainland. Texas' most advanced city was nearly destroyed.
        ...
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

        Comment


        • OK galveston was a great storm , once in a century type thing, but now we get category 5 hurricane every year .
          Systems
          Irma September 5–9, 2017 † 180 mph (285 km/h)
          Maria September 18–20, 2017 † 175 mph (280 km/h)
          Michael October 10, 2018 160 mph (260 km/h)
          Dorian September 1–2, 2019 185 mph (295 km/h)

          Comment


          • People and governments, especially the US government, need to pay attention. Ignoring the growing problem is both dangerous and ignorant.

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...cid=spartandhp
            Every American will be affected by climate change, experts have warned, although extreme events like scorching heatwaves, devastating floods and ferocious hurricanes will hit some harder than others.

            And yet too many Americans see climate change as either a threat only to people in other countries; a threat that will unfold in the distant future; as a problem that humans will simply innovate their way out; or part of a natural cycle, environmental scientists told Newsweek.
            In reality, the impact of global warming is being felt now.
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Massena View Post
              People and governments, especially the US government, need to pay attention. Ignoring the growing problem is both dangerous and ignorant.

              https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...cid=spartandhp
              Every American will be affected by climate change, experts have warned, although extreme events like scorching heatwaves, devastating floods and ferocious hurricanes will hit some harder than others.

              And yet too many Americans see climate change as either a threat only to people in other countries; a threat that will unfold in the distant future; as a problem that humans will simply innovate their way out; or part of a natural cycle, environmental scientists told Newsweek.
              In reality, the impact of global warming is being felt now.
              So? The climate changes. The controversy isn't that it changes, but what's causing those changes. I for one, don't buy the anthropogenic CO2 version that environmentalists and progressives are selling. That doesn't mean I don't believe in climate change. I simply don't believe in the Gorebal Warming version of it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                So? The climate changes. The controversy isn't that it changes, but what's causing those changes. I for one, don't buy the anthropogenic CO2 version that environmentalists and progressives are selling. That doesn't mean I don't believe in climate change. I simply don't believe in the Gorebal Warming version of it.
                One problem is that the molecular resonance of CO2 theory is only provable- or disprovable, on a global experiment sized scalehttps://timeforchange.org/CO2-cause-of-global-warming

                We can measure the correlations- but not prove them.
                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                Comment


                • Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                  One problem is that the molecular resonance of CO2 theory is only provable- or disprovable, on a global experiment sized scalehttps://timeforchange.org/CO2-cause-of-global-warming

                  We can measure the correlations- but not prove them.
                  My biggest objection is that the planet's atmosphere is heated by a complex set of different things, not all of which are well understood. The CO2 theory pretty much ignores that or brushes aside objections and says that correlation is causation. That makes it largely, if not entirely, a combination of a prompter hoc and cherry picking fallacy.

                  Just remember, we barely had any clue what the bottom of the oceans looked like fifty years ago, knew nothing of plate tectonics a century ago. Yet, we have a whole raft of climate scientists telling us they suddenly have a good grasp on the atmosphere and climate change. These are the same guys that got the hole in the ozone layer wrong, climate change in the 70's (global cooling) wrong, and haven't been able to successfully model or predict climate change so far. What reason do I have to believe them suddenly?

                  Comment


                  • http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/3...lobal-warming/
                    may help
                    or not
                    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                    Comment


                    • Or not...

                      My primary example is contrails. Even the climate experts are now coming around to these being a or the potential cause of anthropogenic climate change.

                      Contrails have only been around since the 1930's and have increased in number and duration ever since. Today much of the Northern hemisphere is covered 24/7 by a haze of cloud vapor caused by contrails.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                        But still doesn't explain how 0.04% of dry atmosphere(exclude water vapor content), that CO2, via the 'heat it absorbs' manages to also (transfer?) heat the other 99.96% of the atmosphere - Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, etc.

                        The ratio at 400ppm for CO2 is 1/2500, so the "Gorebal" case for CO2 fails to explain how the other 2,499 parts are also being warmed/heated.
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bill shack View Post
                          OK galveston was a great storm , once in a century type thing, but now we get category 5 hurricane every year .
                          Systems
                          Irma September 5–9, 2017 † 180 mph (285 km/h)
                          Maria September 18–20, 2017 † 175 mph (280 km/h)
                          Michael October 10, 2018 160 mph (260 km/h)
                          Dorian September 1–2, 2019 185 mph (295 km/h)
                          But that doesn't PROVE anthropogenic addition to CO2 levels is the cause.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                            People and governments, especially the US government, need to pay attention. Ignoring the growing problem is both dangerous and ignorant.

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...cid=spartandhp
                            Every American will be affected by climate change, experts have warned, although extreme events like scorching heatwaves, devastating floods and ferocious hurricanes will hit some harder than others.

                            And yet too many Americans see climate change as either a threat only to people in other countries; a threat that will unfold in the distant future; as a problem that humans will simply innovate their way out; or part of a natural cycle, environmental scientists told Newsweek.
                            In reality, the impact of global warming is being felt now.
                            Applying ill-conceived "solutions" to what is a little understood matrix of cause factors is even more dangerous and ignorant.

                            Geological records suggest we could just as likely trigger the next Ice Age rather than trying to set the climate thermostat to an un-natural small range of flux.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                            Comment




                            • Ya think adding that much cloud cover day in and day out isn't having an effect?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                                But still doesn't explain how 0.04% of dry atmosphere(exclude water vapor content), that CO2, via the 'heat it absorbs' manages to also (transfer?) heat the other 99.96% of the atmosphere - Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, etc.

                                The ratio at 400ppm for CO2 is 1/2500, so the "Gorebal" case for CO2 fails to explain how the other 2,499 parts are also being warmed/heated.
                                Actually, the theory is that the Resonance of carbon dioxide passes ( is not visible to ) the wavelengths of light- but reflects the lower wavelength of infrared radiation form the earth back to space, instead of passing it out to space.
                                does it explain all of global warming? there are different opinions on this...
                                Now, there are other solutions ( asteroid shattering, global dimming, etc. which may be more cost effective than limiting CO2...
                                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                                Comment

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