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  • Had the family over for Xmas lunch. My dad tried to convince me that the reason we should not trust Greta was that she had Down's Syndrome. She does have Aspergers, but he tried to convince me that this was why she should be ignored.

    He's old enough to think that attacking the messenger can kill the message.

    Baby boomers have a lot to answer for.
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

      WTF? Immigrant voters are responsible for 90% of the garbage? I'd like to see actual proof of that.
      https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...ust-10-rivers/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
        Had the family over for Xmas lunch. My dad tried to convince me that the reason we should not trust Greta was that she had Down's Syndrome. She does have Aspergers, but he tried to convince me that this was why she should be ignored.

        He's old enough to think that attacking the messenger can kill the message.

        Baby boomers have a lot to answer for.
        Yeah...especially giving birth to the Gimme Gimme Generation.

        Your father was correct, BTW - Asperger's and the like are often highly susceptible to suggestion.

        https://www.research.manchester.ac.u...fde0208d).html
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • A whole $4 million? Lobbyists at Congress blow through that every week.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • Ireland will be the first country to divest from fossil fuels

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            • Have you actually read your link?

              10 rivers may be a major cause of pollution, but that has nothing to do with US immigrants.
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                Yeah...especially giving birth to the Gimme Gimme Generation.

                Your father was correct, BTW - Asperger's and the like are often highly susceptible to suggestion.

                https://www.research.manchester.ac.u...fde0208d).html
                The gimme gimme generation is yours. That generation will die before the mess has to be dealt with. That mess needs to be dealt with be my generation and our offspring.

                Greta may have Aspergers. It does not mean the message is wrong.

                In fact, when the messenger, rather than the message is attacked, the message can usually be considered reliable.
                How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                  The gimme gimme generation is yours. That generation will die before the mess has to be dealt with. That mess needs to be dealt with be my generation and our offspring.

                  Greta may have Aspergers. It does not mean the message is wrong.

                  In fact, when the messenger, rather than the message is attacked, the message can usually be considered reliable.
                  Since her message is for socialism she’s very wrong to most people in the world that she wants to change for that purpose by pretending to care about the environment
                  She should go to China and India and lecture and shame them for their carbon emissions but China is already run by the communist party so they’re not going to be bothered by her and the other phony climate change far left loonies.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                    Since her message is for socialism she’s very wrong to most people in the world that she wants to change for that purpose by pretending to care about the environment
                    She should go to China and India and lecture and shame them for their carbon emissions but China is already run by the communist party so they’re not going to be bothered by her and the other phony climate change far left loonies.
                    The solution for this specific problem is one specific choice, ie stop being stupid.

                    Specific problems have different solutions. Some need a capitalist option, some need a more Christian one.

                    PS Christian does not necessarily mean communist.
                    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                      The solution for this specific problem is one specific choice, ie stop being stupid.

                      Specific problems have different solutions. Some need a capitalist option, some need a more Christian one.

                      PS Christian does not necessarily mean communist.
                      Bull she’s a far left radical with only one goal for Europe and European created countries she could care less about climate change except for the political gain her and the others like her want to gain from the green agenda

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                        The solution for this specific problem is one specific choice, ie stop being stupid.

                        Specific problems have different solutions. Some need a capitalist option, some need a more Christian one.

                        PS Christian does not necessarily mean communist.
                        You are wasting your time. There is literally nothing that you could say that would make an impact. It's a science free discussion. Ideology is the only thing that matters here.

                        The thread is still useful for sharing news and links with others, but as I said: You can't reason someone out of an opinion they did not reason themselves into in the first place.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                          Trump said USA had the cleanest air and cleanest water. He was wrong.
                          He was exaggerating, like he does just about every day. The guy speaks in hyperbole and brags like no one else on a world stage.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                            You are wasting your time. There is literally nothing that you could say that would make an impact. It's a science free discussion. Ideology is the only thing that matters here.

                            The thread is still useful for sharing news and links with others, but as I said: You can't reason someone out of an opinion they did not reason themselves into in the first place.
                            My position on this has been consistent.

                            1. There's room for serious doubt that it's anthropogenic CO2 causing the problem, and settling on that alone as the solution is suspicious at best, disingenuous for political reasons at worst. For example, contrails. These are shown to be a likely cause of at least some unnatural warming. Easily fixed by making airlines fly their planes either slightly higher or lower, or rerouting them around areas were contrails form. Little cost involved, non-political, and reasonably easy to implement. Do it, see what happens in several years of avoiding making them. Then, if necessary, move on to another potential cause that's relatively easy to fix.

                            2. That fixes to CO2 should be best market and environmental practice. That means pushing natural gas to replace coal along with building far more nuclear plants. The other push would be for liquid hydrogen to replace gasoline powering vehicles and abandon the idiocy of battery cars.

                            But, these solutions don't sit well with the Left who has turned climate change into Gorebal Warming and made a political agenda out of it to suit their insane views of how society should work. We wouldn't accept a bunch of neo-Nazis telling us how society should be. Why should we listen to a bunch of Socialists and Communists given history?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                              My position on this has been consistent.

                              1. There's room for serious doubt that it's anthropogenic CO2 causing the problem, and settling on that alone as the solution is suspicious at best, disingenuous for political reasons at worst. For example, contrails. These are shown to be a likely cause of at least some unnatural warming. Easily fixed by making airlines fly their planes either slightly higher or lower, or rerouting them around areas were contrails form. Little cost involved, non-political, and reasonably easy to implement. Do it, see what happens in several years of avoiding making them. Then, if necessary, move on to another potential cause that's relatively easy to fix.

                              2. That fixes to CO2 should be best market and environmental practice. That means pushing natural gas to replace coal along with building far more nuclear plants. The other push would be for liquid hydrogen to replace gasoline powering vehicles and abandon the idiocy of battery cars.

                              But, these solutions don't sit well with the Left who has turned climate change into Gorebal Warming and made a political agenda out of it to suit their insane views of how society should work. We wouldn't accept a bunch of neo-Nazis telling us how society should be. Why should we listen to a bunch of Socialists and Communists given history?
                              You realize that contrails ARE anthropogenic CO2, right?

                              By all means, let's mitigate contrails. But given the contribution of contrails, we probably cannot afford to spend several years just focusing on it alone.

                              Abandoning coal is another good start. But while natural gas emits about 50% the CO2 that coal does, it's production emits a LOT more methane. Natural gas is, at best, an intermediate step, and a short lived one at that. Nuclear, though. Hell, yes. Especially new, modern molten salt or travelling wave reactors.

                              And I'm all for a hydrogen cell based transportation system. But at the risk of seeming difficult, hydrogen cells have their own challenges and, at least to me, don't seem to have that many advantages over battery ev's. I would be interested in an explanation of how ev's using batteries is a Left thing. Basically, I don't see battery powered ev's as "idiocy", especially given the rate of recent progress. Ideally, research continues in both avenues and we have a choice in the near future.

                              We seem to have some common ground, at least. There is definitely room for argument regarding HOW we deal with climate change. But let's stop with the Left/Right bullshit. There are at least as many loonies denying its even happening as their are pushing for climate action as radical social change. And they're a diminishing percentage on each side. Let's just cut the crap.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                                You realize that contrails ARE anthropogenic CO2, right?

                                By all means, let's mitigate contrails. But given the contribution of contrails, we probably cannot afford to spend several years just focusing on it alone.

                                Abandoning coal is another good start. But while natural gas emits about 50% the CO2 that coal does, it's production emits a LOT more methane. Natural gas is, at best, an intermediate step, and a short lived one at that. Nuclear, though. Hell, yes. Especially new, modern molten salt or travelling wave reactors.

                                And I'm all for a hydrogen cell based transportation system. But at the risk of seeming difficult, hydrogen cells have their own challenges and, at least to me, don't seem to have that many advantages over battery ev's. I would be interested in an explanation of how ev's using batteries is a Left thing. Basically, I don't see battery powered ev's as "idiocy", especially given the rate of recent progress. Ideally, research continues in both avenues and we have a choice in the near future.

                                We seem to have some common ground, at least. There is definitely room for argument regarding HOW we deal with climate change. But let's stop with the Left/Right bullshit. There are at least as many loonies denying its even happening as their are pushing for climate action as radical social change. And they're a diminishing percentage on each side. Let's just cut the crap.
                                The scientists are the ones pushing for far left solutions they still haven’t predicted once what the climate will do the science hasn’t been settled on climate change not even close
                                Fact is temperature rises haven’t been the earth destroying catastrophe that they predict it hasn’t turned into anything dangerous that we need to upheave our way of life for

                                The only thing to fear is fear itself

                                3FBFE615-3D5F-477A-BBC3-79F708BBBF17.jpeg
                                Last edited by Snowshoveler; 28 Dec 19, 07:52.

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