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Military Response to Haiti Disaster

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  • #61
    Great stuff guys. Always good to have MOS qualified experts on hand for this sort of data.
    Last edited by GCoyote; 20 Jan 10, 09:12.
    Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

    Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

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    • #62
      Well, I was thinking 50 cals, Mk 19s (Mounted on humvees if necessary) (or you can HST LAVs in, and 25mm cannons are also intimidating), plus use MP platoons with their 40mm baton rounds, OC spray, tasers, etc. to keep from being 'lethal' unless necessary. If the locals are getting really antsy, you can always send in as many platoons as necessary by Blackhawk directly to the affected area.

      Edit:

      Also, if you're going to stay a while, I recommend the first few waves use 20footer containers or quadcons. This allows you to create a "wall" which your MPs can then post on and build an actual compound for food distribution. Another side benefit of shipping containers is that once they're emptied, they can double as a command center and berthing spaces.

      The one detriment to using shipping containers for building a compound is that they are expensive and bulky, and you're not only going to want them back, they're going to require either a lot of road transport, or another HST to get them out.
      Last edited by TacCovert4; 20 Jan 10, 11:32. Reason: Thought about something else!
      Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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      • #63
        Received this from a friend currently serving aboard HMCS ATHABASKAN off the coast of Haiti:

        " ... As I am sure you heard there was another earthquake this morning, registered about a 6.1. Good thing is it happened at sea so it does not look like any damage ashore, or any further damage I should say. Ship shook for about 10-15 seconds. Kind off freaky actually, it felt as if we went from full ahead to full astern. That is what we all thought it was down below until word got around ... "

        Talk about kicking people when they'are down!
        Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

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        • #64
          Operation Unified Response

          From yesterday's Stratfor Naval update:

          The USS Carl Vinson with detachments of MH-53E Sea Dragon and H-60 variants embarked is conducting humanitarian and disaster relief operations in Haiti as part of Operation Unified Response. The Military Sealift Command hospital ship USNS Comfort (T-AH 20) and the guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60) are also on station. The salvage ship USNS Grasp (T-ARS 51) with the U.S. Army's 544th Engineer Dive Team embarked has been surveying the damaged seaport in Haiti's Port-au-Prince, which could begin accepting cargo ships within days. ...

          The USS Nassau with the 24th MEU embarked has been diverted from its scheduled deployment to the Middle East and is instead heading to Haiti for relief operations.
          The USS Bataan with embarked elements of the 22nd MEU is on station near Haiti with the amphibious dock landing ships USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43), USS Gunston Hall (LSD 44), and the USS Carter Hall (LSD 50), supporting Operation Unified Response.
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          Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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          • #65
            A few random observations from coverage I have been reading:

            Complaints on US management of airfield seem to largely stem from two factors when you dig below the surface:
            1. Some contries want to take extended periods of time for photo ops while on the ground. Most extreme example is China spent six hours doing photo ops until the US commander told the to get the heck off his airfield. US now mandates you be off the field two hours after landing. There is apparently at least one case of a Russian flight declaring a false in air emergency to get around this.
            2. Planes were coming in without properly staging for fuel and needing to refuel to take off. French seem to have had at least one case of waiting four hours to get fuel. How can people be so stupid as to expect to be able to refuel at the airfield in Haiti. They need to stage through other fields in the region for refueling. The US now does not let planes land that do not have fuel to take off.

            Access, not security seems to be the big problem in US aid distribution, all the shots I have seen of US run distributions, folks were lined up in an orderly manner, getting their fingers marked to indicate they received distribution and going off in an orderly manner. The UN was apparently totally unequip to organize and conduct aid distribution and was creating chaos rather than bringing order. This seems to be futher supported by US troops on the ground observing UN troops firing into the air and causing panic in situations where the US troops saw no real threat other than a need to move a crowd. Part of what you get I suppose when a lot of UN troops come from third world countries with very different views of how law enforcement authorities conduct themselves.

            I find in curious I have seen coverage of medical aid being provided by the Vinson and of course the Comfort as it came into helio range. I find it curious there has been no mention of the Bataan. It has a 600 bed surgical hospital, largest capability of any ship other than a hospital ship which is about 1000 beds. It it not in use as a medical facility?
            Boston Strong!

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            • #66
              They're probably making more use of its extensive well decks, flight deck, and other facilities for logistics purposes. Using it as a hospital for the Haitians could be detrimental to other ops, as you'd need to have security, cordoned areas of the ship, flight ops to bring in sick and injured, etc. The primary purpose for the Bataan at this point should be providing logistical support to the whole operation, especially since it is probably the largest flight deck in the area, and definitely the largest logistical-centered flight deck. I'm sure if they absolutely need more bed space, the Bataan would be made availible. But I'm also sure that the priority at this point is getting food, water, cooking supplies, clothing, shelter, and medical supplies to the shore, rather than getting the injured and sick off shore (which does nothing but exaecerbate the existing problem).
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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              • #67
                Originally posted by JSMoss View Post
                A few random observations from coverage I have been reading:

                Complaints on US management of airfield seem to largely stem from two factors when you dig below the surface:
                1. Some contries want to take extended periods of time for photo ops while on the ground. Most extreme example is China spent six hours doing photo ops until the US commander told the to get the heck off his airfield. US now mandates you be off the field two hours after landing. There is apparently at least one case of a Russian flight declaring a false in air emergency to get around this.
                I've found that every plane, everywhere, except the US military seems to want to stay on the ground. Like I mentioned earlier, 40 minutes is plenty of ground time if you've got a competent ground crew. 2 hours, geez, 1 halfway motivated TRAM operator could unload a C5 Galaxy in 2 hours.

                Originally posted by JSMoss View Post
                2. Planes were coming in without properly staging for fuel and needing to refuel to take off. French seem to have had at least one case of waiting four hours to get fuel. How can people be so stupid as to expect to be able to refuel at the airfield in Haiti. They need to stage through other fields in the region for refueling. The US now does not let planes land that do not have fuel to take off.
                Another thing I've seen many times. For some reason or another, they either don't think about fuel at all, or think that the US is going to supply them fuel either free or on credit, or at a reduced cost. The US should be charging planes that don't have fuel to take off TRIPLE the going rate for JP8 when they get it.

                Originally posted by JSMoss View Post
                Access, not security seems to be the big problem in US aid distribution, all the shots I have seen of US run distributions, folks were lined up in an orderly manner, getting their fingers marked to indicate they received distribution and going off in an orderly manner. The UN was apparently totally unequip to organize and conduct aid distribution and was creating chaos rather than bringing order. This seems to be futher supported by US troops on the ground observing UN troops firing into the air and causing panic in situations where the US troops saw no real threat other than a need to move a crowd. Part of what you get I suppose when a lot of UN troops come from third world countries with very different views of how law enforcement authorities conduct themselves.
                This should be a no-crap moment for the rest of the world. Not only was the UN so incompetent that they did not help Haiti before the disaster, that they had their entire C3 staff in ONE HOTEL, they also cannot help but act like douchebags when they're needed to show solidarity, order, and all those other things. The US military has a lot of experience with the hearts and minds game, so turn loose the MPs and let them deal with moving the crowds. Any US troops that come across UN workers wontonly discharging weapons or doing any other douchebaggery should immediately disarm said UN troops. Any UN troops so disarmed that cannot be used as interpreters should immediately be sent to some location where they will do as little damage as possible.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                • #68
                  I have a few questions-

                  What is the mission?

                  How long will our troops be there?

                  What is our exit strategy?

                  How much will all this cost?
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                    I have a few questions-

                    What is the mission?
                    The mission: To help the Haitians. If we can avoid an insane amount of mission creep, then we're lucky.

                    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                    How long will our troops be there?
                    Time: Probably at least 6 months for the larger concentrations. First 2 months the US runs the show, then the UN takes over and we slowly draw down, with the last few units staying there for full 18 month deployments.

                    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                    What is our exit strategy?
                    You're joking right? Plans, do you think we have Plans?! The exit strategy is probably going to involve an international incident that will then cause us to leave the country leaving behind a whole lot of pissed off people that will soon be in worse shape than they were before. See Somalia for modern examples.

                    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                    How much will all this cost?
                    It will cost a Stload. Probably 2 Stloads to be honest.
                    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

                      Another thing I've seen many times. For some reason or another, they either don't think about fuel at all, or think that the US is going to supply them fuel either free or on credit, or at a reduced cost.
                      What is NOT being reported in the US, is that many of these planes are forced to circle in a waiting pattern for anywhere from 2 to 5 hours so that US politicians can have their egotistical photo-ops, whether to be seen unloading a few bottles of water or hugging some unfortunate Haitian kid. A Doctors Without Borders plane was denied permission to land THREE times for reasons on the ground involving photo-ops. As of this morning it still hasn't been allowed to land.

                      Keep the politicians at home and perhaps things will run smoother and fewer planes will be out of required fuel.
                      You'll live, only the best get killed.

                      -General Charles de Gaulle

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                      • #71
                        I agree with this statement. I hate VIP flights. And if they want a photo op, get it off the airfield actually doing some work.
                        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by asterix View Post
                          What is NOT being reported in the US, is that many of these planes are forced to circle in a waiting pattern for anywhere from 2 to 5 hours so that US politicians can have their egotistical photo-ops, whether to be seen unloading a few bottles of water or hugging some unfortunate Haitian kid. .
                          See above, its being reported, and the US isn't the only source of trouble.

                          6 hours for one Chinese plane? I would have bulldozed it off the pavement!
                          "Why is the Rum gone?"

                          -Captain Jack

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                          • #73
                            Nah, just give the Haitians some reciprocating saws and tell them the Chinese donated it to the cause.
                            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                            • #74
                              Updated Naval Deployment Info

                              Excerpt from Stratfor:

                              Operation Unified Response (Haiti humanitarian assistance and relief effort)

                              The USS Bataan, USS Carter Hall (LSD 50), USS Gunston Hall (LSD 44) and USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) are on station supporting elements of the 22nd MEU. Detachments from the Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 9 Tridents, the HSC-26 Chargers and the Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron (HM) 14 Vanguard have transferred to the Bataan after spending more than two weeks operating from USS Carl Vinson.
                              The USS Nassau in company with the USS Ashland (LSD 48) and USS Mesa Verde (LPD-19) are on station supporting the 24th MEU.
                              The Military Sealift Command hospital ship USNS Comfort (T-AH 20) is on station.
                              Guided Missile Cruisers USS Normandy (CG 60) and USS Bunker Hill (CG 52) are on station.
                              The guided missile destroyer USS Higgins (DDG-76) and guided missile frigate USS Underwood (FFG-36) are on station.
                              Military Sealift Command ships USNS Jack Lummus (T-AK 3011), which carries an Improved Navy Lighterage System, composed of pontoon sections, and the USNS Sacagawea (T-AKE 2) are on station in addition to USNS PFC Dewayne T. Williams (T-AK 3009), Military Sealift Command fleet replenishment oiler USNS Big Horn (T-AO 1198), salvage ship USNS Grasp (T-ARS 51), and six Coast Guard Cutters.


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                              The full report is available on Strafor.com, registration required.
                              Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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                              • #75
                                I have not seen it yet, but to our man and woman in Haiti.XXL

                                You make us pround.
                                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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