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  • Snowshoveler
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    More like Europeans wanted to do most of the bombing of Libya but were too logistically screwed up to carry it out. Sweden sent some planes for that operation to Italy only to find that military airfields in Italy didn't have the grade of fuel available to fill the planes up! There were range issues and a lack of tanker capacity to fix that. They also found that different countries used different munitions, communications, etc., to the point where they would be weeks just sorting all that out to get things to work smoothly.

    So, the had to whine to Obama to send the USAF and USN in and do the job. Of course, Obama's dithering and indecisiveness meant that the US came into the mission late and were largely relegated to doing a halfassed job because of the administration.
    One of the biggest contributions to Libya by the US was destroying their air defences on day one because the Europeans couldnít do it on their own and still couldnít do today.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    This is an AP raw from three days ago. Seems blackouts, no running water are normal and frequent occurrences in Venezuela even in more affluent areas. Traffic lights don't work.



    The Venezuelan government claims it was an "electromagnetic attack" by a foreign power... Yea, sure. Blackouts are commonplace, the corruption and incompetence of the Maduro government has led to many of the technicians and other skilled people that operate and service the electrical grid to leave the country along with a shortage of repair parts has led to the system being in poor condition. Add a lack of redundancy to that and you get frequent and long blackouts.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ae/lifestyle/...out/vi-AAEKbc0

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

    Europeans did most of the bombing of Libya and it wasnít invaded no nation building by anyone ever happened in Libya.
    More like Europeans wanted to do most of the bombing of Libya but were too logistically screwed up to carry it out. Sweden sent some planes for that operation to Italy only to find that military airfields in Italy didn't have the grade of fuel available to fill the planes up! There were range issues and a lack of tanker capacity to fix that. They also found that different countries used different munitions, communications, etc., to the point where they would be weeks just sorting all that out to get things to work smoothly.

    So, the had to whine to Obama to send the USAF and USN in and do the job. Of course, Obama's dithering and indecisiveness meant that the US came into the mission late and were largely relegated to doing a halfassed job because of the administration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowshoveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
    Libya was bombed. Afghanistan didn't changed for better. Just more people died and that's all.
    Europeans did most of the bombing of Libya and it wasnít invaded no nation building by anyone ever happened in Libya.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Libya was bombed. Afghanistan didn't changed for better. Just more people died and that's all.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    And Afghanistan. And Libya. And Vietnam. And...
    I rate Vietnam as a Loss.

    We didn't invade Libya.

    And Afghanistan is still ongoing.....considering how low that bar is, anything short of setting it on fire could be considered an improvement.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

    Maduro could be asking for the US to invade....after all, we tend to leave countries better than we found them, with the exclusion of Iraq since we did sort of assist in creating ISIS by fumbling the handoff. But if you don't have a psychotic religious sect running around, we'll probably build your country better than American standards.
    And Afghanistan. And Libya. And Vietnam. And...

    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

    When was it ever out of the shitter?
    Sure they had great revenues during the oil boom but that doesn't negate the fact that their industrial output was decreasing in real terms for decades. Their troubles are due to corruption, incompetence, and populist socialism which has gone on since the 60's or before. Chavez and Maduro were just thee latest dictators and Guaido would be no different. They have been ruled by rich elites (fronted by dictators) or populist socialist dictators for over a hundred years. I say dictators because their elections are a joke, just like their economy.
    Government of the people, by the people and for the people. You need all three.
    Very much correct. I also say that in order to truly be a free country, you must have the national history of earning it yourself, usually through suffering. Britain earned their representative government through several wars and other things internally. The US had the American Revolution.

    The Tree of Liberty must sometimes be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants. But there's a caveat, those Patriots must be your own, not someone else's doing the job for you while you sit idly by.

    Which is why I support Venezuelans who want to abolish their series of socialist dictatorships and have a free democratic or republican or parliamentary form of government. And I would be Ok with the US providing some material assistance, or even out-country training or advice. But the Marines and Airborne need to stay home, the US does not need to get involved in direct actions. Nor does the US need to get involved in helping them reform a government unless specifically requested.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
    Maduro's AF harrassing US aircraft in international airspace now apparently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPMrWsoWs8
    Maduro could be asking for the US to invade....after all, we tend to leave countries better than we found them, with the exclusion of Iraq since we did sort of assist in creating ISIS by fumbling the handoff. But if you don't have a psychotic religious sect running around, we'll probably build your country better than American standards.

    Leave a comment:


  • General_Jacke
    replied
    Maduro's AF harrassing US aircraft in international airspace now apparently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPMrWsoWs8

    Leave a comment:


  • debakid
    replied
    Originally posted by asterix View Post

    In the case of Haiti...the UN has done more long term damage to that country than the 2010 earthquake.




    Corruption, dictators, nepotism and combined with general outside influence and interference has long prevented Haiti from having anything viable and good.


    There is potential..but that is all. I don't think Haiti would be allowed to have a prospering economy if it could.
    I completely agree. This is usually the mission of UN in less fortunate countries. The UN as a body should be abolished.

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

    and as i said before, afghanistan's economy is doing pretty good, so not the best example...venezuela's problems are 100% because their economy went in the shitter
    When was it ever out of the shitter?
    Sure they had great revenues during the oil boom but that doesn't negate the fact that their industrial output was decreasing in real terms for decades. Their troubles are due to corruption, incompetence, and populist socialism which has gone on since the 60's or before. Chavez and Maduro were just thee latest dictators and Guaido would be no different. They have been ruled by rich elites (fronted by dictators) or populist socialist dictators for over a hundred years. I say dictators because their elections are a joke, just like their economy.
    Government of the people, by the people and for the people. You need all three.

    Leave a comment:


  • Persephone
    replied
    The U.S. will send the USNS Comfort to Latin American on a mission to provide humanitarian assistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

    Youíre so full of it you havenít any clue what youíre talking about.
    He started the putsh in January. We're 7th of May and no results so far. Really lame.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowshoveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
    If he was hated, Guaido would have succeded. He completely failed.
    Youíre so full of it you havenít any clue what youíre talking about.

    Leave a comment:

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