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  • Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

    and as i said before, afghanistan's economy is doing pretty good, so not the best example...venezuela's problems are 100% because their economy went in the shitter
    When was it ever out of the shitter?
    Sure they had great revenues during the oil boom but that doesn't negate the fact that their industrial output was decreasing in real terms for decades. Their troubles are due to corruption, incompetence, and populist socialism which has gone on since the 60's or before. Chavez and Maduro were just thee latest dictators and Guaido would be no different. They have been ruled by rich elites (fronted by dictators) or populist socialist dictators for over a hundred years. I say dictators because their elections are a joke, just like their economy.
    Government of the people, by the people and for the people. You need all three.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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    • Originally posted by asterix View Post

      In the case of Haiti...the UN has done more long term damage to that country than the 2010 earthquake.




      Corruption, dictators, nepotism and combined with general outside influence and interference has long prevented Haiti from having anything viable and good.


      There is potential..but that is all. I don't think Haiti would be allowed to have a prospering economy if it could.
      I completely agree. This is usually the mission of UN in less fortunate countries. The UN as a body should be abolished.

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      • Maduro's AF harrassing US aircraft in international airspace now apparently

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPMrWsoWs8
        the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

        A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
        A man dies and leaves his name,
        A teacher dies and teaches death.
        Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

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        • Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
          Maduro's AF harrassing US aircraft in international airspace now apparently

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPMrWsoWs8
          Maduro could be asking for the US to invade....after all, we tend to leave countries better than we found them, with the exclusion of Iraq since we did sort of assist in creating ISIS by fumbling the handoff. But if you don't have a psychotic religious sect running around, we'll probably build your country better than American standards.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

            When was it ever out of the shitter?
            Sure they had great revenues during the oil boom but that doesn't negate the fact that their industrial output was decreasing in real terms for decades. Their troubles are due to corruption, incompetence, and populist socialism which has gone on since the 60's or before. Chavez and Maduro were just thee latest dictators and Guaido would be no different. They have been ruled by rich elites (fronted by dictators) or populist socialist dictators for over a hundred years. I say dictators because their elections are a joke, just like their economy.
            Government of the people, by the people and for the people. You need all three.
            Very much correct. I also say that in order to truly be a free country, you must have the national history of earning it yourself, usually through suffering. Britain earned their representative government through several wars and other things internally. The US had the American Revolution.

            The Tree of Liberty must sometimes be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants. But there's a caveat, those Patriots must be your own, not someone else's doing the job for you while you sit idly by.

            Which is why I support Venezuelans who want to abolish their series of socialist dictatorships and have a free democratic or republican or parliamentary form of government. And I would be Ok with the US providing some material assistance, or even out-country training or advice. But the Marines and Airborne need to stay home, the US does not need to get involved in direct actions. Nor does the US need to get involved in helping them reform a government unless specifically requested.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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            • Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

              Maduro could be asking for the US to invade....after all, we tend to leave countries better than we found them, with the exclusion of Iraq since we did sort of assist in creating ISIS by fumbling the handoff. But if you don't have a psychotic religious sect running around, we'll probably build your country better than American standards.
              And Afghanistan. And Libya. And Vietnam. And...
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                And Afghanistan. And Libya. And Vietnam. And...
                I rate Vietnam as a Loss.

                We didn't invade Libya.

                And Afghanistan is still ongoing.....considering how low that bar is, anything short of setting it on fire could be considered an improvement.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                • Libya was bombed. Afghanistan didn't changed for better. Just more people died and that's all.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    Libya was bombed. Afghanistan didn't changed for better. Just more people died and that's all.
                    Europeans did most of the bombing of Libya and it wasn’t invaded no nation building by anyone ever happened in Libya.

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                    • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                      Europeans did most of the bombing of Libya and it wasn’t invaded no nation building by anyone ever happened in Libya.
                      More like Europeans wanted to do most of the bombing of Libya but were too logistically screwed up to carry it out. Sweden sent some planes for that operation to Italy only to find that military airfields in Italy didn't have the grade of fuel available to fill the planes up! There were range issues and a lack of tanker capacity to fix that. They also found that different countries used different munitions, communications, etc., to the point where they would be weeks just sorting all that out to get things to work smoothly.

                      So, the had to whine to Obama to send the USAF and USN in and do the job. Of course, Obama's dithering and indecisiveness meant that the US came into the mission late and were largely relegated to doing a halfassed job because of the administration.

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                      • This is an AP raw from three days ago. Seems blackouts, no running water are normal and frequent occurrences in Venezuela even in more affluent areas. Traffic lights don't work.



                        The Venezuelan government claims it was an "electromagnetic attack" by a foreign power... Yea, sure. Blackouts are commonplace, the corruption and incompetence of the Maduro government has led to many of the technicians and other skilled people that operate and service the electrical grid to leave the country along with a shortage of repair parts has led to the system being in poor condition. Add a lack of redundancy to that and you get frequent and long blackouts.

                        https://www.msn.com/en-ae/lifestyle/...out/vi-AAEKbc0

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                        • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                          More like Europeans wanted to do most of the bombing of Libya but were too logistically screwed up to carry it out. Sweden sent some planes for that operation to Italy only to find that military airfields in Italy didn't have the grade of fuel available to fill the planes up! There were range issues and a lack of tanker capacity to fix that. They also found that different countries used different munitions, communications, etc., to the point where they would be weeks just sorting all that out to get things to work smoothly.

                          So, the had to whine to Obama to send the USAF and USN in and do the job. Of course, Obama's dithering and indecisiveness meant that the US came into the mission late and were largely relegated to doing a halfassed job because of the administration.
                          One of the biggest contributions to Libya by the US was destroying their air defences on day one because the Europeans couldn’t do it on their own and still couldn’t do today.

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