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  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    What kind of evidence do you need ?
    More than Maduro claiming it.

    As I pointed out, the way the grid in Venezuela is set up, the corruption and incompetence that has taken over the national electrical supplier, and the fact that engineers who are knowledgeable on the Venezuelan grid all point to an internal F up.

    Maduro's claims it was the US are those of a raving lunatic dictator who's losing his grip on both the country and reality.

    Comment


    • And it happened just some weeks after US declared that their puppet should be the president but he didn't maneged to get the power. And an American senator knows in a couple of hours what's going on better than the locals. Coincidence ? I think not.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
        And it happened just some weeks after US declared that their puppet should be the president but he didn't maneged to get the power. And an American senator knows in a couple of hours what's going on better than the locals. Coincidence ? I think not.
        So? That's attributing potential coincidence with an occurrence. Without some degree of proof, you have nothing.

        As for the "
        American senator knows in a couple of hours what's going on better than the locals..." that I'd expect too. The "locals" only know what they get from the state run news for the most part. Since much of Venezuela's internet service and phone system crashed due to the loss of power, I'd say that's reasonable.

        When I was serving on ships in the Navy, people back home often knew more about what was going on with the ship in the "big picture" than the crew. Same thing. Relative location to some occurrence doesn't equate to knowledge about the occurrence, particularly today in the Electronics Age.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

          Again, what evidence do you want ? A mail from CIA hackers ?
          Any evidence they have would be nice.


          but they havenít released any evidence because they donít have it.
          because you donít have any evidence from the Maduro regime to support your claim you simply ask what kind of evidence I want as a form of deflection instead of providing evidence to be analyzed and evaluated on an individual basis.
          the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

          A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
          A man dies and leaves his name,
          A teacher dies and teaches death.
          Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
            And it happened just some weeks after US declared that their puppet should be the president but he didn't maneged to get the power. And an American senator knows in a couple of hours what's going on better than the locals. Coincidence ? I think not.
            Because people who are already starving are totally going to be able to take the time to care about finding out why the lights are out and how wide spread it is...meanwhile US maintained generators in the embassy and consulates can communicate and pass information easily and securely.
            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
            A man dies and leaves his name,
            A teacher dies and teaches death.
            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

            Comment


            • Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

              Any evidence they have would be nice.


              but they havenít released any evidence because they donít have it.
              because you donít have any evidence from the Maduro regime to support your claim you simply ask what kind of evidence I want as a form of deflection instead of providing evidence to be analyzed and evaluated on an individual basis.
              What kind of evidence ? Be clear and precise.

              ​​
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                What kind of evidence ? Be clear and precise.

                ​​
                Youíre the one saying that it was for sure the US that caused the blackouts itís you that needs to provide the evidence to back your claim.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  Maduro's claims it was the US are those of a raving lunatic dictator.
                  Au contraire. Irrespective of attitude toward Maduro that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, since the US has both a motive and possibilities.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
                    Au contraire. Irrespective of attitude toward Maduro that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, since the US has both a motive and possibilities.
                    Until there is some actual proof, it's a conspiracy theory and nothing more.

                    I suppose the other, previous, shorter blackouts were all caused by the US too...

                    https://money.cnn.com/2016/04/22/new...ays/index.html

                    Here's a detailed description of what happened.

                    https://www.caracaschronicles.com/20...venezuela-faq/

                    In short, the transmission lines between San Geromno B and Malena lost a phase (one of three) when the cable(s) failed. The remaining two legs of power became badly overloaded and failed in a cascade. Engineers think this happened because of a forest fire.
                    Yea, that's how the CIA rolls... They send commandos into Venezuela to set a forest fire and take out a transmission line to cause a blackout...

                    Seeing as how this is only the latest, and longest, blackout of dozens that have plagued Venezuela under Maduro, I'm not buying that for a New York second.

                    Previous ones almost a big hit Venezuela in October 2018, August 2017, and in 2015. These too lasted several days.

                    But, feel free to continue to believe the idiot conspiracy theorists on the Left who think otherwise. Actually, other than the vulgarians and haters with their rants on this, some of the conspiracy theories would make great action movies...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Until there is some actual proof
                      Do you understand the meaning of the word "hypothesis"? I'm not saying that's it is a fact, I'm just finding this a reasonable explanation. Reasons explained above (motives, opportunity, time-frame)
                      Here's a detailed description of what happened.
                      The detailed description uses phrases like "From [unnamed] people inside the electric industry, we know that...", "The engineers suspect that.." It's more like a hearsay, and with an obvious political bias. In general I would take any sources obviously engaged in anti-Maduro crusade with a certain grain of salt.
                      That US intends to force a regime change in Venezuela is an obvious observation. There is nothing idiotic about it. Hence interpretations involving foreign meddling looks natural.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
                        Do you understand the meaning of the word "hypothesis"? I'm not saying that's it is a fact, I'm just finding this a reasonable explanation. Reasons explained above (motives, opportunity, time-frame)
                        It isn't once a description of what happened in detail is available. It tosses out the conspiracy theory.

                        The detailed description uses phrases like "From [unnamed] people inside the electric industry, we know that...", "The engineers suspect that.." It's more like a hearsay, and with an obvious political bias. In general I would take any sources obviously engaged in anti-Maduro crusade with a certain grain of salt.
                        That US intends to force a regime change in Venezuela is an obvious observation. There is nothing idiotic about it. Hence interpretations involving foreign meddling looks natural.
                        The article, if you read it, details the transmission system sufficiently to show the sequence of how power is distributed. It is specific as to where the problem occurred-- THIS TIME-- and it an many other articles I didn't bother to post up show that power outages and blackouts have been occurring in Venezuela not only for the last several years, but some are of near equal severity and that the cause has always been a very vulnerable transmission system.

                        The question I pose is Why should this time be different than the last five, ten, or whatever times? What in this occurrence makes you want to believe that suddenly the CIA and the US are involved when there have been plenty of previous similar events where they weren't?
                        I'd also say that since the severity of these events has been increasing that it is again the poor condition of the Venezuelan grid that has been getting worse in part because of Maduro's rule and the corruption that goes with it.


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          The question I pose is Why should this time be different than the last five, ten, or whatever times? What in this occurrence makes you want to believe that suddenly the CIA and the US are involved when there have been plenty of previous similar events where they weren't?
                          Because they were smaller and didn't happen right in the critical time. Look, an American plan to depose Madura with a sort of a cavalry charge obviously failed. The plan to provoke clashes at the border over foreign aid also generally failed. And here comes the blackout right is this moment when anti-Maduro revolution starts to bog down. If it was really a technical accident then it was a supernaturally lucky coincidence. Yes, sometimes coincidences happen, but I'm rather prone to believe in human actions.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
                            Because they were smaller and didn't happen right in the critical time. Look, an American plan to depose Madura with a sort of a cavalry charge obviously failed. The plan to provoke clashes at the border over foreign aid also generally failed. And here comes the blackout right is this moment when anti-Maduro revolution starts to bog down. If it was really a technical accident then it was a supernaturally lucky coincidence. Yes, sometimes coincidences happen, but I'm rather prone to believe in human actions.
                            You are using a logical fallacy to support a conspiracy theory (appeal to coincidence). This is the sort of thing numerologists play on, and they are offering quack theories too. Look up "Washington Monument conspiracy theories" some time. Same thing you are offering here. ÖBut the timing is... Öit can't be coincidence...
                            As another example you might ask someone "What are the odds of a 'miracle?' They might answer "A million to one." Well, in that case there are thousands of miracles a day, year, whatever on the planet as there are billions of people who potentially could have one occur for them. There's nothing "supernaturally lucky" about it. People win the lottery for Christ's sake, and the odds of that are way worse than a million to one.

                            That isn't uncommon. Since Maduro has come to power Venezuela has experienced numerous blackouts and some have been nearly as bad as this one. It is just the latest in a string of power failures in the country and they are due to a poor grid with little resilience. It now also has to do with the skills drain as people flee the country as well as corruption due to unqualified cronies loyal to Maduro are placed in key positions within the corporation that runs the electrical system.

                            I'm prone to believe factual evidence. There was a forest fire that brought down a transmission line. That happened recently in California too. But California has more redundancy in their grid so it was worked around. Venezuela doesn't, and it took days, weeks, to get the lines repaired and back in service.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                              What kind of evidence ? Be clear and precise.

                              ​​
                              literally anything.
                              if itís any sort of evidence then provide it.

                              i donít need to be clear and precise when asking for anything that can be call evidence to be provided.

                              the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                              A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                              A man dies and leaves his name,
                              A teacher dies and teaches death.
                              Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
                                Because they were smaller and didn't happen right in the critical time. Look, an American plan to depose Madura with a sort of a cavalry charge obviously failed. The plan to provoke clashes at the border over foreign aid also generally failed. And here comes the blackout right is this moment when anti-Maduro revolution starts to bog down. If it was really a technical accident then it was a supernaturally lucky coincidence. Yes, sometimes coincidences happen, but I'm rather prone to believe in human actions.
                                Yes human action like the actions of neglecting proper maintenance of critical infrastructure?

                                there is a pattern of neglect, a massive blackout is not an Ďaccidentí when thereís an obvious lack of maintenance and support.
                                the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                                A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                                A man dies and leaves his name,
                                A teacher dies and teaches death.
                                Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                                Comment

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