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  • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
    My bad. Here you go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Zangara

    Look at the attending circumstances.

    Henry Wade, the Dallas District Attorney at the time, as well as John Connolly himself, or the Lieutenant Governor in his absence/incapacitated state, should have had every Dallas cop, Texas Department of Public Safety officers by the metric ton, and Texas Rangers galore they could have found at Love Field and armed to the friggin' teeth telling the feds to get stuffed, or else we're going to have The Alamo all over again here and now.
    That was never an option and in the heat of that day and the time span, people didnt really know what was going on. You must remember at this moment the government genuinely feared this may have been the beginning of a wider attack. More people would die or maybe even war....LBJ certainly did...understandably too I would imagine.

    On top of this I think those at the top quickly realised that they wanted to keep control of the events and particulalry who may have done it. If it quickly got out that Castro had done this or maybe the KGB, events of catastophic proportions could soon get out of control...
    Last edited by copenhagen; 02 Jul 13, 09:43.

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    • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
      That was never an option and in the heat of that day and the time span, people didnt really know what was going on. You must remember at this moment the government genuinely feared this may have been the beginning of a wider attack. More people would die or maybe even war....LBJ certainly did...understandably too I would imagine.

      On top of this I think those at the top quickly realised that they wanted to keep control of the events and particulalry who may have done it. If it quickly got out that Castro had done this or maybe the KGB, events of catastophic proportions could soon get out of control...
      Well, we're left only to debate the merits of what was optional and what wasn't now, and forever after.

      I understand where you're coming from, of course. However, if a grand conspiracy is going to be considered, I must allow that the plotting top tier gave this some thought as well and stated in my own terms for simplicity's sake...

      "You realize, of course, that in order for us to fully and hopefully successfully pull this off, we're going to have to have control over all the evidence including the corpse, limo, weapon, and every damn thing else we can get our hands on, and quick as hell.

      Hmmm. You're right. What's a good cover story, should we need one?

      I'm thinking the Kennedy family as the first obvious choice given overall public sentiment with the whole Jackie, John-John and Caroline's horses thing. Then too, we can always toss "national security" into the mix and we all know who has jurisdiction over that, right? Us. All we have to do is time this right, get to Love Field as fast as we can, surround ourselves with Secret Service up the ass, load up, and get out of Dodge as fast as AF-One can take us, and then swear Lyndon in. Oh ****! Get a federal judge on board too! Almost forgot that one. Who's available?".

      Something like that, or a reasonable approximation thereof.
      Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

      Comment


      • The govenment did cover things up post the assasination of that there is no doubt from the FBI to the CIA and the Warren Commision. However the notion that LBJ and the wider intelligence community commited a coup I think is nonsense... There was a cover up but not for the reasons many think...There is the conspiracy to murder (if there was one) and the conspiracy to cover certain things up. By and large they were two seperate things. Some can't deal with that but there you go..

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        • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
          The govenment did cover things up post the assasination of that there is no doubt from the FBI to the CIA and the Warren Commision. However the notion that LBJ and the wider intelligence community commited a coup I think is nonsense... There was a cover up but not for the reasons many think...There is the conspiracy to murder (if there was one) and the conspiracy to cover certain things up. By and large they were two seperate things. Some can't deal with that but there you go..
          Aha. Mistaken inference. Wasn't meant to be taken as LBJ being an active co-conspirator, just a beneficiary of same, and willing or not. Somewhere in his WH recordings/notes/utterances/first-party statements to second-parties file are two revealing passages. One, is about how the sound of rounds whizzing above his head made an impression on him. Two, are these words. Draw your own conclusion to what he meant and how he meant it. "...(you mean to tell me)...we've been running a damn Murder Incorporated down there?! (the Caribbean)". If not precise, close enough. Just Google 'LBJ Murder Incorporated' and enough references will be found.

          Personally, I never thought the intel community power scheme as a whole were in on it. However, I do believe that either/or former members of lower echelon tiers were part of the deal. Who else could pull it off to the timing and technical details that were required other than those who had whatever measure of experience in it? Well, domestically, that is. What purpose is served keeping the JFK files locked up until what, 2030, or somewhere around that? Find/read: Barry And The Boys. Google it, and then hit Images. You'll find a good many suspects all sitting at a table in Mexico City circa 1960, including a case officer that later went onto become DCI under Bush The Elder, I believe. Porter Goss. These are the people LBJ was referring to about Murder Incorporated. Fascinating stuff. Nothing conclusive about The Event, but I think it's a stretch not to lend some measure of credibility to it.

          To me, it's no more than having read of things, and then drawing the best conclusion I can given what's been presented so far. I was 10-years old and sitting in my 5th grade class at the time of the event. All of my present thoughts came much, much later in life. For an interesting heads up from someone you'd expect to know a little something about all of this, read Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty's JFK, The CIA and Vietnam. This guy worked in black ops in the Pentagon for a good long time and makes a pretty convincing case. Get to the good part where he initially puts 2+2 together when he's a couple/few time-zones away when he reads of the event in a newspaper. They; whoever they may be, forgot about that one. Prouty doesn't buy a "wider intelligence community" plot either. However, he certainly breaks down involvement at varying levels down to a certain street-level that makes enough sense to not rule it out as complete bullshit.

          It's just waaaaay too much objective smoke not to have a notion of fire to it. Read for yourself and go from there. Best thing I can advise you to do if for just academic value alone.
          Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
            Aha. Mistaken inference. Wasn't meant to be taken as LBJ being an active co-conspirator, just a beneficiary of same, and willing or not. Somewhere in his WH recordings/notes/utterances/first-party statements to second-parties file are two revealing passages. One, is about how the sound of rounds whizzing above his head made an impression on him. Two, are these words. Draw your own conclusion to what he meant and how he meant it. "...(you mean to tell me)...we've been running a damn Murder Incorporated down there?! (the Caribbean)". If not precise, close enough. Just Google 'LBJ Murder Incorporated' and enough references will be found.

            Personally, I never thought the intel community power scheme as a whole were in on it. However, I do believe that either/or former members of lower echelon tiers were part of the deal. Who else could pull it off to the timing and technical details that were required other than those who had whatever measure of experience in it? Well, domestically, that is. What purpose is served keeping the JFK files locked up until what, 2030, or somewhere around that? Find/read: Barry And The Boys. Google it, and then hit Images. You'll find a good many suspects all sitting at a table in Mexico City circa 1960, including a case officer that later went onto become DCI under Bush The Elder, I believe. Porter Goss. These are the people LBJ was referring to about Murder Incorporated. Fascinating stuff. Nothing conclusive about The Event, but I think it's a stretch not to lend some measure of credibility to it.

            To me, it's no more than having read of things, and then drawing the best conclusion I can given what's been presented so far. I was 10-years old and sitting in my 5th grade class at the time of the event. All of my present thoughts came much, much later in life. For an interesting heads up from someone you'd expect to know a little something about all of this, read Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty's JFK, The CIA and Vietnam. This guy worked in black ops in the Pentagon for a good long time and makes a pretty convincing case. Get to the good part where he initially puts 2+2 together when he's a couple/few time-zones away when he reads of the event in a newspaper. They; whoever they may be, forgot about that one. Prouty doesn't buy a "wider intelligence community" plot either. However, he certainly breaks down involvement at varying levels down to a certain street-level that makes enough sense to not rule it out as complete bullshit.

            It's just waaaaay too much objective smoke not to have a notion of fire to it. Read for yourself and go from there. Best thing I can advise you to do if for just academic value alone.
            Thanks for the post but to say you're preaching to the choir when it comes to reading on this era and subject. In fact I got this thread going. Go back to my posts on this thread to see what I've always commented so I dont need to bang away on the keyboard to remake my points lol Just to say I've read a lot of stuff on this from Larry Hancock, to Lemar Waldron to David Talbot and Mark Lane and so on nevermind archive material and tapes etc. I didn't infer that you thought LBJ or the main establishment of the CIA were by the way, was just commenting. I dont think they were.. Larry Hancock's Someone would've talked is an interesting read if you haven't encountered it... I'm wary of Fletcher Prouty if I'm honest. Thnaks for getting ionvolved here as some people have done some wonderful research over the years and some ge mocked very unfairly of ten nto helped by the kooks who do get involved...

            As you mentioned it. Murder INC was an LBJ reference when he found out the CIA/MAfia operations in Central America and the Carribean in the very late 50's and 60's.
            Last edited by copenhagen; 03 Jul 13, 09:03.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
              Thanks for the post but to say you're preaching to the choir when it comes to reading on this era and subject. In fact I got this thread going. Go back to my posts on this thread to see what I've always commented so I dont need to bang away on the keyboard to remake my points lol Just to say I've read a lot of stuff on this from Larry Hancock, to Lemar Waldron to David Talbot and Mark Lane and so on nevermind archive material and tapes etc. I didn't infer that you thought LBJ or the main establishment of the CIA were by the way, was just commenting. I dont think they were.. Larry Hancock's Someone would've talked is an interesting read if you haven't encountered it... I'm wary of Fletcher Prouty if I'm honest. Thnaks for getting ionvolved here as some people have done some wonderful research over the years and some ge mocked very unfairly of ten nto helped by the kooks who do get involved...

              As you mentioned it. Murder INC was an LBJ reference when he found out the CIA/MAfia operations in Central America and the Carribean in the very late 50's and 60's.
              Cool. Forty inches all-around. Fascinating topic.
              Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                Cool. Forty inches all-around. Fascinating topic.
                Yes the general era in itself is very interesting . Eisenhower's era, Castro, JFK, Alan Dulles, Richard Helms Johnsons and Nixon's presidency. Lot of riddles wrapped in enigmas...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                  Cool. Forty inches all-around. Fascinating topic.
                  In your reading what does it lead you to speculate in terms of probability based on what we now know?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                    In your reading what does it lead you to speculate in terms of probability based on what we now know?
                    Let me get back to you on this one. It's going to take awhile to formulate and then condense.
                    Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                    Comment


                    • In your reading what does it lead you to speculate in terms of probability based on what we now know?

                      Thought it all over again this morning over coffee. Nothing I could state would be new as folks were saying the same thing when I was a child. I'm forced to draw my conclusion from the below:

                      Absconding with pertinent evidence.

                      If they snatched evidence willy-nilly, there was no reason whatsoever not to have taken Jack Ruby to DC and depose him, even without his many requests.

                      Not releasing all files until 2030 when all possible concerned conspirators are long gone stone dead, and hell, probably most of the 10-year olds that were around at the time as well.

                      Those are my Top Three.
                      Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                        In your reading what does it lead you to speculate in terms of probability based on what we now know?

                        Thought it all over again this morning over coffee. Nothing I could state would be new as folks were saying the same thing when I was a child. I'm forced to draw my conclusion from the below:

                        Absconding with pertinent evidence.

                        If they snatched evidence willy-nilly, there was no reason whatsoever not to have taken Jack Ruby to DC and depose him, even without his many requests.

                        Not releasing all files until 2030 when all possible concerned conspirators are long gone stone dead, and hell, probably most of the 10-year olds that were around at the time as well.

                        Those are my Top Three.
                        If i'm not mistaken, there's a law that automatically seals all files involved in anything that may involve intelligence activities for fifty years. After the Warren commission report was issued, the clock starting ticking on the fifty years. When the House Assassinations Committee held hearings on the JFK assassination in the late 70's, that reset the clock again.

                        That's why the files/evidence is sealed until 2030. I've seen that quoted many times by conspiracy buffs as evidence of something nefarious. It's actually not. The law existed before the JFK assassination.

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                        • Not really. Because of the JFK Records Collection ACT of 1992, the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was created to implement this sweeping order to speedily identify and declassify JFK assassination records.

                          The ARRB got underway in 1994 and remained in existence until the Fall of 1998, though some further declassifications have continued since the ARRB's demise. During the period of the ARRB's existence, a few million pages of documents were declassified.

                          The ARRB defined assassination records broadly, and some CIA and military records have illuminated U.S. foreign relations in the 1960s, including the early course of the Vietnam War and U.S. policy towards Cuba.

                          The ARRB generated its own files, which include a Final Report, deposition transcripts, internal memoranda, transcripts of public hearings, and more.

                          The Government can and has released JFK assassination files, but still many, many more are still being held secret.

                          http://www.history-matters.com/archi...e_holdings.htm
                          "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

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                          • Originally posted by phil74501 View Post
                            If i'm not mistaken, there's a law that automatically seals all files involved in anything that may involve intelligence activities for fifty years. After the Warren commission report was issued, the clock starting ticking on the fifty years. When the House Assassinations Committee held hearings on the JFK assassination in the late 70's, that reset the clock again.

                            That's why the files/evidence is sealed until 2030. I've seen that quoted many times by conspiracy buffs as evidence of something nefarious. It's actually not. The law existed before the JFK assassination.
                            If there is such a law, it sure as hell is utilized most arbitrarily.
                            Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by unclefred View Post
                              Not really. Because of the JFK Records Collection ACT of 1992, the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was created to implement this sweeping order to speedily identify and declassify JFK assassination records.

                              The ARRB got underway in 1994 and remained in existence until the Fall of 1998, though some further declassifications have continued since the ARRB's demise. During the period of the ARRB's existence, a few million pages of documents were declassified.

                              The ARRB defined assassination records broadly, and some CIA and military records have illuminated U.S. foreign relations in the 1960s, including the early course of the Vietnam War and U.S. policy towards Cuba.

                              The ARRB generated its own files, which include a Final Report, deposition transcripts, internal memoranda, transcripts of public hearings, and more.

                              The Government can and has released JFK assassination files, but still many, many more are still being held secret.

                              http://www.history-matters.com/archi...e_holdings.htm
                              Thanks. Wasn't sure, and have already done my limb-hanging for the day.

                              In any other case, or like one yet not this deep, you'd have the Dallas County District Attorney and the Atty General of the State Of Texas hollering and screaming all the way to the SCOTUS for those remaining files in an on-going murder investigation.
                              Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                              Comment


                              • There was a cover up of the evidence for a number of reasons I believe by the authorities and not in any particular order of merit.
                                • The initial fear that the assassination was or could be linked to Castro and or the USSR leading to a nuclear war.
                                • The Warren Commission wanted the world for the reasons above to make LHO a lone nut assassin and deflect any attention away from Cuba. However as we know to be very probable, LHO was most likely an operative of the CIA or ONI. Furthermore his name had been used by the intelligence services for at least two years in one form or another. The Mexico city episode for example and even as a name to buy trucks I believe as far as back as 1961. These agencies didn't want this mans name to become associated with them under any circumstances.
                                • It now seems very clear that LHO had had contact possibly as an informant of some sort for the FBI. They would never want to have their name attached to this man particularly a man like J. Edgar Hoover whose primary motivation was the Bureaus reputation and the power he wielded from it.
                                • An investigation of LHO's intel connections would lead the public to the plots to kill Castro and actual murders like that of Trujillo. Assassinating foreign dignitaries in this fashion was taboo anyway but to also expose the CIA invited involvement of the Mafia would end the careers of all those concerned. Don't forget Richard Helms had carried on with the relationship with the mob after the CIA had been explicitly ordered to stop by the Kennedy government
                                • We are now aware of an imminent operation to start a coup involving a very high ranked Cuban official scheduled to happen a short time after JFK was murdered. His identity was considered sacrosanct and for many years afterwards.
                                • Men such as LBJ and RFK who was still attorney general with RFK in particular apparently deeply concerned that activities he had been deeply involved in could have been turned around against his beloved brother.

                                From the evidence I have read this is why I believe the authorities covered up the evidence pertaining to the case and continued to do so for some time afterwards. The reputation of the nation in regards to their institutions is why I believe they continue to do so.
                                Last edited by copenhagen; 04 Jul 13, 11:51.

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