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  • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
    Well guys in my opinion the Mob had the motivation to kill JFK but it would and did require the support and assistance of very powerful connected US elites. It appears both of you have a sandbag wall built to stop the blame for going higher than the Mob (and maybe a few low level contractors acting independently) or a single crazed man Oswald theory.

    The motivation of these elites was to remove JFK due to his unwillingness to engage US ground troops into Vietnam so as to commit massive scale killings upon the Vietnamese people to destroy the independence movement and setup/protect the passive compliance state centered at Saigon. These elites also wanted and did assist in 1966 and 1967 the successful massive scale killings upon the Indonesian people for the very same reasons. One can naturally assume JFK would be opposed to this slaughter also.

    These same elites were already very upset on JFK not allowing them to invade Cuba or strike it with atomic bombs.
    Hi Bo just to say that your proposition is the essentially the thesis of Oliver Stone of course. I don't personally believe in that proposition myself but I do believe that the establishment did partake in the cover up because of the establishments complicity in illegal activities to kill Castro which truly investigating the case particularly into the mob would have brought to light. Also that Oswald was very well know to various agencies was very embarrassing. Please try the hidden history of the JFK assassination by Lamar Waldron (and his other works, also try Someone would have talked by Larry Hancock and Brothers by David Talbot) which is extremely well researched with official documentation that will truly raise your eyebrows in this regard. It amazed me how deep the Mafia were brought into the activities of the CIA and how personnel within both organisations intertwined right up to the activities at Watergate. This may give you some answers to how the Mafia could get the access to commit such a crime, with some referred to earlier in the thread. Check it out and see what you think.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
      Well guys in my opinion the Mob had the motivation to kill JFK but it would and did require the support and assistance of very powerful connected US elites. It appears both of you have a sandbag wall built to stop the blame for going higher than the Mob (and maybe a few low level contractors acting independently) or a single crazed man Oswald theory.

      The motivation of these elites was to remove JFK due to his unwillingness to engage US ground troops into Vietnam so as to commit massive scale killings upon the Vietnamese people to destroy the independence movement and setup/protect the passive compliance state centered at Saigon. These elites also wanted and did assist in 1966 and 1967 the successful massive scale killings upon the Indonesian people for the very same reasons. One can naturally assume JFK would be opposed to this slaughter also.

      These same elites were already very upset on JFK not allowing them to invade Cuba or strike it with atomic bombs.
      Hi Bo. It's easy to say that a lot of nasty stuff went on during those days (and still today) but connecting these people to the assassination is a whole different thing. One very important thing to remember about the POTUS is that he is the least powerful part of the federal government and his is a temporary job. He will be gone, very soon if people wanted to pour money into the opposition campaign the following year. The gain of killing him is small compared to the possible penalties; the gain in simply waiting him out is very great.

      I think the problem with the NUMEROUS conspiracy theories is that they stemmed from an initial period where everyone was throwing about ideas. If there was the slightest doubt in an explanation of some aspect of the killing it was blown out of proportion. No one could believe that a defector to Russia couldn't be an agent of some kind. His playing around with various types in New Orleans heightened the notion that he was some kind of agent. I read many of books on the assassination and what I have come to realize is that so much of the conjecture has disappeared or been proven erroneous. We have to be willing to look with a critical; eye and see what we don't want to see. Last night I relooked at the Zapruder and I clearly see that Connally is reacting as if hit as they come from behind the Stemmons freeway sign. His reaction is not tremendous but it is there. many said how could he hold his Stetson if he had been shot in the wrist? Why couldn't he? Muscles often convulse and lock up when injury has been experienced by the body.

      Just remember theories were flying about at a time of distrust and that distrust heightened and the theories increased. How much of what has been postulated has been disproven?
      John

      Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JBark View Post
        Hi Bo. It's easy to say that a lot of nasty stuff went on during those days (and still today) but connecting these people to the assassination is a whole different thing. One very important thing to remember about the POTUS is that he is the least powerful part of the federal government and his is a temporary job. He will be gone, very soon if people wanted to pour money into the opposition campaign the following year. The gain of killing him is small compared to the possible penalties; the gain in simply waiting him out is very great.

        I think the problem with the NUMEROUS conspiracy theories is that they stemmed from an initial period where everyone was throwing about ideas. If there was the slightest doubt in an explanation of some aspect of the killing it was blown out of proportion. No one could believe that a defector to Russia couldn't be an agent of some kind. His playing around with various types in New Orleans heightened the notion that he was some kind of agent. I read many of books on the assassination and what I have come to realize is that so much of the conjecture has disappeared or been proven erroneous. We have to be willing to look with a critical; eye and see what we don't want to see. Last night I relooked at the Zapruder and I clearly see that Connally is reacting as if hit as they come from behind the Stemmons freeway sign. His reaction is not tremendous but it is there. many said how could he hold his Stetson if he had been shot in the wrist? Why couldn't he? Muscles often convulse and lock up when injury has been experienced by the body.

        Just remember theories were flying about at a time of distrust and that distrust heightened and the theories increased. How much of what has been postulated has been disproven?
        Hi John,

        I'm not in anyway an expert on this, it's not even something I ever really cared about, but I do love my mafia stuff and in many years of reading about it I've come across snippets and the like that make me think all roads lead to Rome.

        Now I know and care almost zero about the CIA or the US government at that time, so I'm certainly not qualified to offer an opinion on them, but they turn up again and again in my mafia readings.

        I don't know what really happened anymore than you or Cope does, but until I find the answer to why Jack Ruby - a connected mob man - decided to walk into a heavily guarded police station and shoot dead the man that was the #1 infamous killer of his day, then I'm sticking with the conspiracy theory.

        Shoot that down and I'll shake your hand and walk away.
        Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

        That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
          Hi John,

          I'm not in anyway an expert on this, it's not even something I ever really cared about, but I do love my mafia stuff and in many years of reading about it I've come across snippets and the like that make me think all roads lead to Rome.

          Now I know and care almost zero about the CIA or the US government at that time, so I'm certainly not qualified to offer an opinion on them, but they turn up again and again in my mafia readings.

          I don't know what really happened anymore than you or Cope does, but until I find the answer to why Jack Ruby - a connected mob man - decided to walk into a heavily guarded police station and shoot dead the man that was the #1 infamous killer of his day, then I'm sticking with the conspiracy theory.

          Shoot that down and I'll shake your hand and walk away.
          As you've said before, Ruby is where the mob had to take a chance and stick their neck out. A bag man for the Dallas mob run by Marcello kills the man supposedly responsible for the murder of the president. C'mon. Was it your Frank Sheeran reading that had a quote that said as soon as they saw Ruby take out Oswald they knew who'd done it. That's without the evidence collated by the likes of Waldron and the HSCA. Ruby, Oswald, Ferrie, Bannister. They all have one thing in common.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
            As you've said before, Ruby is where the mob had to take a chance and stick their neck out. A bag man for the Dallas mob run by Marcello kills the man supposedly responsible for the murder of the president. C'mon. Was it your Frank Sheeran reading that had a quote that said as soon as they saw Ruby take out Oswald they knew who'd done it. That's without the evidence collated by the likes of Waldron and the HSCA. Ruby, Oswald, Ferrie, Bannister. They all have one thing in common.
            Ruby is the white rabbit, my friend.
            Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

            That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
              Hi John,

              I'm not in anyway an expert on this, it's not even something I ever really cared about, but I do love my mafia stuff and in many years of reading about it I've come across snippets and the like that make me think all roads lead to Rome.

              Now I know and care almost zero about the CIA or the US government at that time, so I'm certainly not qualified to offer an opinion on them, but they turn up again and again in my mafia readings.

              I don't know what really happened anymore than you or Cope does, but until I find the answer to why Jack Ruby - a connected mob man - decided to walk into a heavily guarded police station and shoot dead the man that was the #1 infamous killer of his day, then I'm sticking with the conspiracy theory.

              Shoot that down and I'll shake your hand and walk away.
              Long, wet walk if I succeed. The why in my mind is that he is a stoned nut job. Wacky behavior is common for him, no? He's one reason I would give to argue against mob involvement. They send him in to silence LHO why? Oswald's past is going to point to Russia with a hint of Cuba. He can blabber all he wants but they are going to try him and fry him in a month. In walks Ruby and if someone wants a mob connection there it is (though I don't think he was very high up on the food chain there.). Ruby does the mob no good, they didn't send him. He was plain nuts.
              John

              Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

              Comment


              • JBark

                JFK did have the power to stop the introduction of US ground troops and air force attacks in Cuba. JFK did say he would not allow US ground combat troops in Vietnam. I think he had to power to carry out this threat and he did in Cuba.

                The elites that were so upset with JFK were fully aware of the time factor in Vietnam which was at a critical stage. The reason being that the Diem government was on the verge of collapse and a communist takeover was at hand. They could not and would not wait for JFK to finish his term nor his second term as president because the Diem would likely collapse within months. They believed ground combat troops must be introduced immediately and no more mistakes like in Cuba. Remember Diem was opposed to US ground troops also and he was suspected to engaging in peace talks with the communist movement which earned him his death with full support of these elites.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
                  JBark

                  JFK did have the power to stop the introduction of US ground troops and air force attacks in Cuba. JFK did say he would not allow US ground combat troops in Vietnam. I think he had to power to carry out this threat and he did in Cuba.

                  The elites that were so upset with JFK were fully aware of the time factor in Vietnam which was at a critical stage. The reason being that the Diem government was on the verge of collapse and a communist takeover was at hand. They could not and would not wait for JFK to finish his term nor his second term as president because the Diem would likely collapse within months. They believed ground combat troops must be introduced immediately and no more mistakes like in Cuba. Remember Diem was opposed to US ground troops also and he was suspected to engaging in peace talks with the communist movement which earned him his death with full support of these elites.
                  These are all true however the document trail doesn't really lead there. Other documents do lead to other trails as ive discussed before. One of those trails was not that he was a loner with no prior connections.. Far from it. That he worked as a pro Castro supporter (see the leaflet footage) out of the same building as vehement anti Castro people who were also known associates of organised crime (including a man who was considered Marcello's assistant) is also not conjecture. Law enforcement don't believe in co-incidences and neither should we.

                  Comment


                  • Copenhagen

                    This would be a very damaging document you just posted if it is confirmed as a truthful government document. What can you tell me about its nature and truthfulness? As clever forgery it would be useful in damaging a certain line of theories. Would not the Media have made a headline of it????

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
                      Copenhagen

                      This would be a very damaging document you just posted if it is confirmed as a truthful government document. What can you tell me about its nature and truthfulness? As clever forgery it would be useful in damaging a certain line of theories. Would not the Media have made a headline of it????
                      That document and it's not the first time it's been posted here was from the Lamar Waldron reading. I really suggest you read hidden history and legacy of secrecy where he found these sources within government files. This includes the Operation Camtex file in which Carlos marcello admitted his complicity to an fbi informer in the 1980's. Also a CIA memo card confirming that they were aware of LHO's connections to David Ferrie and guy bannister both Carlos Marcello employees and did work for the CIA in respect to Castro in 1962/3. The reason that the media over the years don't touch this stuff because it basically cost you your job. Having Oswald as the lone killer solved a lot of problems for a lot of important people. If you like looking in rabbit holes then look down this one... See what you make of it..
                      Last edited by copenhagen; 30 Nov 14, 04:40.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                        That document and it's not the first time it's been posted here was from the Lamar Waldron reading. I really suggest you read hidden history and legacy of secrecy where he found these sources within government files. This includes the Operation Camtex file in which Carlos marcello admitted his complicity to an fbi informer in the 1980's. Also a CIA memo card confirming that they were aware of LHO's connections to David Ferrie and guy bannister both Carlos Marcello employees and did work for the CIA in respect to Castro in 1962/3. The reason that the media over the years don't touch this stuff because it basically cost you your job. Having Oswald as the lone killer solved a lot of problems for a lot of important people. If you like looking in rabbit holes then look down this one... See what you make of it..
                        How surprised I am to see you in the conversation and posting information you posted previously in this thread? Do you like Bo better than me
                        Doesn't the document above refer to training he received in the marines? I would think it does and the important research to accompany use of that document is to determine the nature of the training they refer to. Was it standard for his position at the time or was it something mysterious and clandestine as you would prefer?

                        Sorry, the media doesn't touch this because it cost you your job? Is that for real? People don't get canned for a documented story.

                        Can I ask what is the significance of a CIA memo card? That sounds pretty simple and to be expected under the circumstances.
                        John

                        Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post

                          This document is a pretty bad fake by the way. I know that no agency in this country puts the phrase " UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.". That is one lame attemt to deceive Copenhagen. Shame on you.
                          What are the circumstances of Secret Service investigating LHO?
                          John

                          Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JBark View Post
                            How surprised I am to see you in the conversation and posting information you posted previously in this thread? Do you like Bo better than me
                            Doesn't the document above refer to training he received in the marines? I would think it does and the important research to accompany use of that document is to determine the nature of the training they refer to. Was it standard for his position at the time or was it something mysterious and clandestine as you would prefer?

                            Sorry, the media doesn't touch this because it cost you your job? Is that for real? People don't get canned for a documented story.

                            Can I ask what is the significance of a CIA memo card? That sounds pretty simple and to be expected under the circumstances.
                            I disagree with Bo's thesis. And perhaps he does mine. Neither have called each others beliefs "garbage." I have looked at this stuff with a healthy critical eye through the research and consider them credible as far as some one like me can tell because they are from official archives. The memo shows the CIA's knowledge of Oswald and his associates within the New Orleans mob who also did work for the CIA in regards to Cuba. Oswald is arrested for the murder and is in turn murdered by a man who worked for the New Orleans Godfather and also owed him money. Ruby had been involved in gun running in regards to Cuba for the mob a few years earlier. Co-incidences are not liked in criminal investigations. If you think its all made up by crazy people that's up to you.
                            Last edited by copenhagen; 30 Nov 14, 08:26.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
                              JBark

                              JFK did have the power to stop the introduction of US ground troops and air force attacks in Cuba. JFK did say he would not allow US ground combat troops in Vietnam. I think he had to power to carry out this threat and he did in Cuba.

                              The elites that were so upset with JFK were fully aware of the time factor in Vietnam which was at a critical stage. The reason being that the Diem government was on the verge of collapse and a communist takeover was at hand. They could not and would not wait for JFK to finish his term nor his second term as president because the Diem would likely collapse within months. They believed ground combat troops must be introduced immediately and no more mistakes like in Cuba. Remember Diem was opposed to US ground troops also and he was suspected to engaging in peace talks with the communist movement which earned him his death with full support of these elites.
                              Yes, but Cuba wasn't going anywhere. Waiting him out was not a problem. Did they go in with him gone? No.
                              Vietnam could have been escalated under Kennedy if Tonkin occured under his watch? The CIA and military know of creative ways to bring us to war. What was so important about Vietnam? Why did this little country mean so much?
                              John

                              Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                              Comment


                              • Domino theory...
                                Kennedy was considered an appeaser and even a communist sympathiser by some significant people within the US political, military and intelligence community..

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