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  • He was well and truly sheep-dipped by the time that his pre-trial conviction in the press had begun.
    BoRG
    "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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    • Originally posted by Arthwys View Post
      He was well and truly sheep-dipped by the time that his pre-trial conviction in the press had begun.
      Completely agree. It was very cleverly done...

      Comment


      • So now you guys are going at it in the Politics Central forum?

        Methinks maybe the threads should be merged?
        BoRG
        "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Arthwys View Post
          So now you guys are going at it in the Politics Central forum?

          Methinks maybe the threads should be merged?
          Don't. That PC one will die fairly soon. This one I think is more serious and has knowledgeable people having some calm discourse. This one ticks along nicely with people dipping in and out over time. Politics Central has a habit of getting lairy and difficult. That is my request to the Mods anyway.
          Last edited by copenhagen; 29 Dec 13, 06:46.

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          • I wanted to put his in here as I think it will get more focused discussion than in PC ( and I hope the mods don't merge these threads) but its an excellent summary and I think is where the research has been leading lately and is leading. Uncle Fred i think you will find this interesting...





            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
              I'll dig the book out if you want exact quotes and page numbers.
              OK. Found it. I have more books than organisational skills it seems. But here we are.

              From Charles Brandt "I heard you paint houses"

              (Painting houses is doing hits ie you cover the walls in blood)

              A week or so before the 22nd of Nov, 63 Hoffa calls Sheeran and tells him to 'go see his friend' (Russell Bufalino). Bufalino tells him to meet with Tony Provenzano. Tony Pro gives him a duffel bag with three guns and tells him to take them to "our friend's pilot". The pilot is Dave Ferrie, Carlos Marcellos is the 'our friend'. Also there was an unnamed (because he was still alive at the time of the telling) Genovese made man present. (page 162)

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ferrie

              Not long before Hoffa disappeared Bufalino was in a meeting with Hoffa and Sheeran, and he was telling Hoffa that he was causing problems.

              "There are people higher up than me that feel that you are demonstrating a failure to show appreciation for Dallas" (page 240)

              Later:

              Russell took me aside and said, 'Some people have a serious problem with your friend. Talk to your friend. Tell him what it is.'
              'I'll do my best. You know yourself, Russ; he's tough to talk to.'
              'He's got no choice.'
              'Jimmy is pretty high up himself', I said.
              'You're dreaming, my friend. If they could take out the president, then they could take out the president of the Teamsters.' (page 241)

              [Sheeran telling Hoffa 'what it is'. Hoffa is ranting about how he has records and lists that will be mailed out if anything happens to him.]

              'Jimmy, you're doing a lot of puffing that has people concerned.'
              'That's just the tip of the iceberg, the tip of the iceberg. Let me tell you - Dallas. Did you hear that word tonight? Remember that package you took to Baltimore? I didn't know it then, but it turns out they were high powered rifles for the Kennedy hit in Dallas. The stupid bastards lost their own rifles in a trunk of a Thunderbird that crashed when the driver got drunk. The pilot for Carlos was involved in delivering the replacements that you brought down. Those f***ers used both of on that deal. We were patsies. What do you think of that? They had fake cops and real cops involved in it. Jack Ruby's cops were supposed to take care of Oswald, but Ruby bungled it. That's why he had to go in and finish the job on Oswald, what do you think they would have done to him - put Ruby on a meat hook. Don't kid yourself. Santo and Carlos and Giancana and some of their element, they were all in on Kennedy. Every single one of the same cast of characters were in on the Bay of Pigs. They even had a plot to kill Castro with Momo and Roselli. I've got enough to hang them all. And every last bit of it comes out if anything unnatural happens to me. They will pay. All those that f***ed me will pay.' (page 242)

              Shortly after that Hoffa was lured to a set up meeting where Sheeran put two bullets into his head, and an unknown cleaner took the body to a crematorium and disposed of it.
              Last edited by Rojik; 30 Dec 13, 08:02.
              Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

              That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                OK. Found it. I have more books than organisational skills it seems. But here we are.

                From Charles Brandt "I heard you paint houses"

                (Painting houses is doing hits ie you cover the walls in blood)

                A week or so before the 22nd of Nov, 63 Hoffa calls Sheeran and tells him to 'go see his friend' (Russell Bufalino). Bufalino tells him to meet with Tony Provenzano. Tony Pro gives him a duffel bag with three guns and tells him to take them to "our friend's pilot". The pilot is Dave Ferrie, Carlos Marcellos is the 'our friend'. Also there was an unnamed (because he was still alive at the time of the telling) Genovese made man present. (page 162)

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ferrie

                Not long before Hoffa disappeared Bufalino was in a meeting with Hoffa and Sheeran, and he was telling Hoffa that he was causing problems.

                "There are people higher up than me that feel that you are demonstrating a failure to show appreciation for Dallas" (page 240)

                Later:

                Russell took me aside and said, 'Some people have a serious problem with your friend. Talk to your friend. Tell him what it is.'
                'I'll do my best. You know yourself, Russ; he's tough to talk to.'
                'He's got no choice.'
                'Jimmy is pretty high up himself', I said.
                'You're dreaming, my friend. If they could take out the president, then they could take out the president of the Teamsters.' (page 241)

                [Sheeran telling Hoffa 'what it is'. Hoffa is ranting about how he has records and lists that will be mailed out if anything happens to him.]

                'Jimmy, you're doing a lot of puffing that has people concerned.'
                'That's just the tip of the iceberg, the tip of the iceberg. Let me tell you - Dallas. Did you hear that word tonight? Remember that package you took to Baltimore? I didn't know it then, but it turns out they were high powered rifles for the Kennedy hit in Dallas. The stupid bastards lost their own rifles in a trunk of a Thunderbird that crashed when the driver got drunk. The pilot for Carlos was involved in delivering the replacements that you brought down. Those f***ers used both of on that deal. We were patsies. What do you think of that? They had fake cops and real cops involved in it. Jack Ruby's cops were supposed to take care of Oswald, but Ruby bungled it. That's why he had to go in and finish the job on Oswald, what do you think they would have done to him - put Ruby on a meat hook. Don't kid yourself. Santo and Carlos and Giancana and some of their element, they were all in on Kennedy. Every single one of the same cast of characters were in on the Bay of Pigs. They even had a plot to kill Castro with Momo and Roselli. I've got enough to hang them all. And every last bit of it comes out if anything unnatural happens to me. They will pay. All those that f***ed me will pay.' (page 242)

                Shortly after that Hoffa was lured to a set up meeting where Sheeran put two bullets into his head, and an unknown cleaner took the body to a crematorium and disposed of it.
                Rojik you're an absolute gent. I've heard this before but only in outline form. The detail you've provided is very interesting and a lot of this make so much more sense. I knew Hoffa was being difficult but what a fool. I mean Rosselli was very high up and they chopped him up with a chain saw. You've provided the page numbers but not what the actual book is. Could you let me know . I actually finished Lemar Waldrons new book yesterday. I can highly recommend it. Just to add, the videos above the man talking about his book. That's a Sicilian writer who is an authority on the Mafia that's just finished a book on Marcello as the prime suspect in the case. There's still a lot of resistance to the idea that the Mafia could have done this, with the belief continuing that they were only capable of hijacking trucks. Momentum seems to be building on this.. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 5 years or so. Thanks again for going out of your way like this. If I can return the favour..

                Comment


                • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                  You've provided the page numbers but not what the actual book is. Could you let me know.
                  I did. Second line.

                  But to make it easier for all:

                  Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                  That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                    Thanks again for going out of your way like this. If I can return the favour..
                    Oh, and de nada.

                    You post things that help me put my jigsaw together. I post things that help you with yours. Others do the same and recieve the same. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole, and all that.
                    Last edited by Rojik; 30 Dec 13, 09:21. Reason: Got the quote arse about. D'oh!
                    Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                    That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                      I did. Second line.

                      But to make it easier for all:

                      I'm sorry was reading too fast. I thought you paint houses was a quote by some one (which I know it is ) but not the title of a book. I might have to add this to the reading list...I take it you recommend it?

                      Comment


                      • I do. It's a great look at how the mob and the unions ran the US in the 50's and 60's (with a little help from the CIA). They had a finger in every pie going around. Sheeran mixed with the biggest players of the day, but it is primarily the stories of his closest friends Russell Bufalino and Jimmy Hoffa, and how it came to be that one ordered him to kill the other.

                        But the bit about the JFK assasination was the surprise in the book. It's all there, it all fits, and it was told by an old man who had nothing to gain by telling it.

                        Something else I found:

                        Once in a while Giancana would have a guy with him named Jack Ruby from Dallas. I met Jack Ruby a few times. I know Jimmy's kid met him, too, at the Edgewater. Ruby was with Giancana and he was with Red Dorfman. (page 119)

                        In September 1978 Dan E. Moldea, author of 'The Hoffa Wars', tape recorded a conversation with James P Hoffa, Jimmy's son.

                        "When I reminded [young Jimmy] Hoffa that he had told me of his father's relationship with Jack Ruby, Hoffa confirmed [it]. Unknown to Hoffa and for my own protection I secretly tape recordered this telephone conversation with Hoffa". (page 119/120)
                        Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                        That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                          I do. It's a great look at how the mob and the unions ran the US in the 50's and 60's (with a little help from the CIA). They had a finger in every pie going around. Sheeran mixed with the biggest players of the day, but it is primarily the stories of his closest friends Russell Bufalino and Jimmy Hoffa, and how it came to be that one ordered him to kill the other.

                          But the bit about the JFK assasination was the surprise in the book. It's all there, it all fits, and it was told by an old man who had nothing to gain by telling it.

                          Something else I found:

                          Once in a while Giancana would have a guy with him named Jack Ruby from Dallas. I met Jack Ruby a few times. I know Jimmy's kid met him, too, at the Edgewater. Ruby was with Giancana and he was with Red Dorfman. (page 119)

                          In September 1978 Dan E. Moldea, author of 'The Hoffa Wars', tape recorded a conversation with James P Hoffa, Jimmy's son.

                          "When I reminded [young Jimmy] Hoffa that he had told me of his father's relationship with Jack Ruby, Hoffa confirmed [it]. Unknown to Hoffa and for my own protection I secretly tape recordered this telephone conversation with Hoffa". (page 119/120)
                          As you mentioned Jack Ruby just thought you and maybe others night find this interesting... For those that may not have known. jack Rubenstein changed his name to Jack Ruby when he moved South in the late 40's.

                          Last edited by copenhagen; 31 Dec 13, 10:52.

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                          • Just a point on the Mafia and how far its influence spread over the years - you only have to look at how the US government worked with some of its people during the Second World War.

                            This actually looks like quite a good and interesting thread - will have to read through. An area I cannot say I know lots about.
                            "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                            G.B Shaw

                            "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                            Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                              Just a point on the Mafia and how far its influence spread over the years - you only have to look at how the US government worked with some of its people during the Second World War.

                              This actually looks like quite a good and interesting thread - will have to read through. An area I cannot say I know lots about.
                              Yes the US government did work with Luciano to maintain control in the unions and weed out sabotage ans espionage in the docks . Also in the control in Italy once US forces got in there .Welcome to the thread.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                                Yes the US government did work with Luciano to maintain control in the unions and weed out sabotage ans espionage in the docks . Also in the control in Italy once US forces got in there .Welcome to the thread.
                                Yep. Lucky used the Longshoremen's union to look for non existent subs in NY waterways, and Genovese worked for the US in Sicily while also controlling the black market there.

                                The more you read, the deeper the rabbit hole. They ran everything. There were more than a few well known congressmen and senators that help office purely because of LCN help - and a couple of them ended up with the top job. Hell, one of the many motives the mafia had for whacking Kennedy was that they delivered him Illinois and he treated them so badly after.
                                Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                                That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                                Comment

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