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  • Interesting thread!

    What are people's take on the photo of Oswald with the gun and a copy of the Communist Manifesto? I didn't know until know that Marina claimed she took it. Photo experts claimed it was doctored. She claimed she didn't know why he wanted it. Either it's real or she's lying.

    Never made sense if he was actually planning to do the deed. Always smelt like a plant to incriminate him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
      LBJ killed JFK again? I think not... That's the rabbit hole that muddies good JFK research..
      Did I mention ol' Corn pone? I mentioned The international Business group who can uh, *adjust economies that can downgrade millions of worker's incoms or even their job situations.

      p.s. Of course whenever a Big shot suddenly gets eliminated, I ask, "Who benefits from this?"

      p.p.s. When I posted, I thought I was answering a post featuring a large Swastica.
      I reckon some sensitive soul saw fit to cover our eyes...

      Comment


      • I'm a new member and have enjoyed all your posts. To add to this conversation, let me say that I'd never thought there was a conspiracy nor that LHO was anything more than a lone gunman... Until one day a couple years ago I was in Dallas for work and found myself with a free afternoon, so decided to pay a little pilgrimage to the site of the assassination of this great president. I gotta tell you fellas, seeing it in person changed my mind. First , seeing the route of the motorcade that deviated from going straight on Main through Dealy Plaza and instead dog-legs right on Houston then left on Elm, so JFK is served up on a silver platter to LHO's position and then as a fail-safe, to the grassy knoll. Yet instead of taking the easier shot at JFk as he moved towards the school depository building, LHO almost misses the opportunity and doesn't shoot until the target has passed him and is starting to move away... Away from him and into the grassy knoll secondary kill-zone,

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Woodleypark View Post
          I'm a new member and have enjoyed all your posts. To add to this conversation, let me say that I'd never thought there was a conspiracy nor that LHO was anything more than a lone gunman... Until one day a couple years ago I was in Dallas for work and found myself with a free afternoon, so decided to pay a little pilgrimage to the site of the assassination of this great president. I gotta tell you fellas, seeing it in person changed my mind. First , seeing the route of the motorcade that deviated from going straight on Main through Dealy Plaza and instead dog-legs right on Houston then left on Elm, so JFK is served up on a silver platter to LHO's position and then as a fail-safe, to the grassy knoll. Yet instead of taking the easier shot at JFk as he moved towards the school depository building, LHO almost misses the opportunity and doesn't shoot until the target has passed him and is starting to move away... Away from him and into the grassy knoll secondary kill-zone,
          Hello Woodley and welcome to the forum. I haven't been to Dallas myself but in a way you're like quite a lot of us. Didn't put too much stock in theories or whatever but my some chance we've read some information and thought hang on a minute...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tascosa View Post
            Did I mention ol' Corn pone? I mentioned The international Business group who can uh, *adjust economies that can downgrade millions of worker's incoms or even their job situations.

            p.s. Of course whenever a Big shot suddenly gets eliminated, I ask, "Who benefits from this?"

            p.p.s. When I posted, I thought I was answering a post featuring a large Swastica.
            I reckon some sensitive soul saw fit to cover our eyes...
            Yes the Clint Murchison and his gang did it theory holds a lot interest especially in these days of the "greedy bankers". However the clues lie for me in the CIA Mafia plots to kill Castro coupled with the brothers huge pressure they were exerting on the mob. Yes the government I do believe covered up evidence but not for the reasons we might expect.
            Last edited by copenhagen; 16 Dec 13, 15:55.

            Comment


            • Curioser and curiouser

              Originally posted by Woodleypark View Post
              I'm a new member and have enjoyed all your posts. To add to this conversation, let me say that I'd never thought there was a conspiracy nor that LHO was anything more than a lone gunman... Until one day a couple years ago I was in Dallas for work and found myself with a free afternoon, so decided to pay a little pilgrimage to the site of the assassination of this great president. I gotta tell you fellas, seeing it in person changed my mind. First , seeing the route of the motorcade that deviated from going straight on Main through Dealy Plaza and instead dog-legs right on Houston then left on Elm, so JFK is served up on a silver platter to LHO's position and then as a fail-safe, to the grassy knoll. Yet instead of taking the easier shot at JFk as he moved towards the school depository building, LHO almost misses the opportunity and doesn't shoot until the target has passed him and is starting to move away... Away from him and into the grassy knoll secondary kill-zone,
              Don't forget all those *open windows along the parade route; this is *not S.S. protocol. Why was Johnson trying so hard to get friend Connally back in the V.Ps limo? Not to mention Johnson slumped down in his limo with what appeared to be a walkie talkie like instrument?

              p.s. The Mafia with all the power they had then, could *not change x-rays and bullet entry points at Bethesda, opposite of what was seen in Dallas Parkland hospital by about twenty medical personnel.
              See: Gerry Ford (somehow later becomes President) and the curious case of
              Bobby and the family Admiral medical actions then!?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tascosa View Post
                Don't forget all those *open windows along the parade route; this is *not S.S. protocol. Why was Johnson trying so hard to get friend Connally back in the V.Ps limo? Not to mention Johnson slumped down in his limo with what appeared to be a walkie talkie like instrument?

                p.s. The Mafia with all the power they had then, could *not change x-rays and bullet entry points at Bethesda, opposite of what was seen in Dallas Parkland hospital by about twenty medical personnel.
                See: Gerry Ford (somehow later becomes President) and the curious case of
                Bobby and the family Admiral medical actions then!?
                No the Mafia could not do what you say but then again they didn't have to. Because of their involvement in Operation Mongoose, what they knew and who was involved with what the CIA and certain people in the FBI and White House with trying to kill Castro; they knew they'd cover it up and they did. They were desperate to keep that quiet. The need to keep that quiet went right through to Watergate to be frank. There were two operations. One to do the job and the other which is actually separate, to cover up the evidence that pointed away from the lone gunmen. This is a significant point and needs to be understood.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                  No the Mafia could not do what you say but then again they didn't have to. Because of their involvement in Operation Mongoose, what they knew and who was involved with what the CIA and certain people in the FBI and White House with trying to kill Castro; they knew they'd cover it up and they did. They were desperate to keep that quiet. The need to keep that quiet went right through to Watergate to be frank. There were two operations. One to do the job and the other which is actually separate, to cover up the evidence that pointed away from the lone gunmen. This is a significant point and needs to be understood.
                  So somehow at least *three separate government groups decided to kill the president because a *few renegades and criminals wanted a Cuban leader dead, and the Prez might get mad?
                  And not a single member of the FBI; CIA, or even the Federal force which had the job of protecting the president (no matter what) went to Bobby and
                  said, "There are Brutus' and Judas' planning murder with the Mafia."

                  This would mean *no one in the Secret Service would wonder about all those open windows on the parade route (and the rather sudden route change) or say anything public about these strange maneuvers.
                  Or wonder about hijacking the body from Dallas (the legal site)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tascosa View Post
                    So somehow at least *three separate government groups decided to kill the president because a *few renegades and criminals wanted a Cuban leader dead, and the Prez might get mad?
                    And not a single member of the FBI; CIA, or even the Federal force which had the job of protecting the president (no matter what) went to Bobby and
                    said, "There are Brutus' and Judas' planning murder with the Mafia."

                    This would mean *no one in the Secret Service would wonder about all those open windows on the parade route (and the rather sudden route change) or say anything public about these strange maneuvers.
                    Or wonder about hijacking the body from Dallas (the legal site)
                    You're kind of getting away from the point to be honest and leave the pigs fly stuff for Politics Central. Lets try and keep this adult eh? Three separate government groups didn't try and kill anyone, well one was officially trying to kill Castro at least but that anotehr part of the story. The Mafia had come under enormous,enormous pressure by RFK when he became Attorney General. Marcello and Trafficante in particular along with the likes of Giancana and off course Jimmy Hoffa had come under major surveillance by government agents driven by the dedicated and driven Robert Kennedy. Marcello himself had been utterly humiliated by RFK when he was bundled on to a plane, deported as an illegal alien (which he was) and left in a jungle clearing standing in his Gucci shoes and hand made suit in the middle of the Guatemalan jungle. Mob bosses don't take too kindly to that kind of thing. Furthermore the Mob by this point but unbeknownst to the Kennedy brothers had once again been co-opted into assisting the CIA with killing Fidel Castro. CIA operatives such as David Morales and David Atlee Philips were heavily involved in this but also had mob connections particularly Morales who had become very close to a man named John Roselli who was the go between for the CIA and the Mob. Morales himself of course utterly loathed the Kennedy's after the Bay of Pigs failure . In addition two other men who worked on the anti Castro plots was a man by the name of Guy Bannister, a former FBI agent turned private detective in New Orleans who whilst doing contract work for the CIA in regards to Castro also did work for Carlos Marcello as did a man named David Ferrie who as a pilot had flown in and out of Cuba on gun running operations for the CIA and the mob since the late 50's. Also working out of the same building which housed Bannister's anti Castro work was the New Orleans chapter of the Fair play for Cuba Committee a pro Castro Marxist organisation run by its only member, one Lee Harvey Oswald.

                    It is now understood that there were three operations to try and kill JFK. Two failed ,one succeeded.One in Chicago in early November, one in Tampa in mid November and one in Dallas later in the month. The Chicago one was called off after a tip off about two "Cuban types" with rifles in a hotel room and "an ex marine with mental problems" by the name of Thomas Valle was arrested with a M1 rifle and 3000 rounds of ammunition in his car. He had very shortly before got a job overlooking the parade route and and had connections to a CIA backed anti Castro exile group. Kennedy's parade was cancelled. The next one in Tampa went ahead minus Jackie. Again a man with very similar appearance and background to LHO by the name of Gilberto Lopez again a man with strange ties to the fair play for Cuba committee, got into very public fist fights with anti Castro groups(as did LHO), tried to get into Cuba via Mexico City (as did LHO) Again an FBI informant overheard something and tipped off the FBI. The parade went ahead but with massively enhanced security. Chicago is the home territory of Sam Giancana, Tampa is the home turf of Trafficante and Dallas is at the heart of Carlos Marcello's territory. In all three areas they were primed to use their local assets in the police or whoever to get what needed to be done.

                    It had become known that the attempts to kill Castro were now very well known to not only Havana but also Moscow. The White House began to plan for the possibility that Cuba might try to assassinate a US official in somewhere like Central America or possibly Florida. The contingency plan was to cover up as quickly as possible and suppress the fact that this US official was murdered by communist operatives as the fear was it would get out of control and lead to another Cold War confrontation as in the Cuban missile crisis. When JFK himself was shot the initial reaction by the CIA and FBI was that this may well have been done by communist operatives and if made public , nuclear war would ensue. A conversation between LBJ and a prospective member of the Warren commission is there for all to hear on You Tube as is LBJ and JEH discussing LHO's "confusing" presence in Mexico City. LHO was all over CIA and FBI files as having been spoken to and been put under surveillance. Can you imagine the horror they must have felt that a guy they'd talked to , kept tabs on and interviewed was implicated in murdering the POTUS, a man also with apparent with "connections" to Communists and held Marxist sympathies. On top of that it could blow open all their operatives and operations involved in murdering Castro. Dozens of very high profile careers were on the line never mind the threat of a nuclear war. The Mob knew this was the case and they knew the intelligence agencies would cover it up, and they did just that and in many ways still are. To be honest I'm scraping the surface; there's a whole reading list of this stuff, much of it very recent. Self discovery is always good on this . I would urge you to research an operation to tap Carlos Marcello in the 1980's called Operation CAMTEX as well as the House Select Committee on Assassinations from the 1970's that quietly concluded that the mob and particularly Marcello had the means, motive and opportunity to kill JFK. This conclusion indirectly led to Operation CAMTEX, whose results were kept covert at the behest of the Reagan administration. The truth is often stranger than pigs might fly fiction. If you want some reading material PM me or Uncle Fred for that matter. We'll hook you up.
                    Last edited by copenhagen; 21 Dec 13, 12:37.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by unclefred View Post
                      You didn't watch the video apparently, which breaks down the obvious weaknesses of the shell casing evidence into easy to understand terms.

                      If you persist in your beliefs after watching it, you are operating on faith rather then factual evidence. Believe me, the Warren Commission is not worthy of your faith.
                      Oh, baloney! LOL

                      The people who studied the assassination were serious about it and their conclusions were correct. Their studies were IN DEPTH and their conclusions correct.

                      Comment


                      • Like any good conspiracy theory, you can't make every one believe. It can be like taking the Mules down to the tank and watching to see if they drink. If some people do not believe that is their choice.

                        Personally I see a lot of holes in the Warren Commission and think it was biased. I don't try to force anyone else's belief though.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by majormack View Post
                          Oh, baloney! LOL

                          The people who studied the assassination were serious about it and their conclusions were correct. Their studies were IN DEPTH and their conclusions correct.
                          I guess some folks will believe anything if the authorities tell them to. Even though the physical evidence directly refutes the claims...whether it's shell casings, medical evidence, or magical bullet ballistics, the Warren commission conclusions were shown as false almost immediately by thinking, concerned citizens.

                          Richard Schweiker, Senator and former Church Committee member:


                          "I think the [Warren] report, to those who have studied it closely, has collapsed like a house of cards.....the fatal mistake the Warren Commission made was not to use its own investigators, but instead to rely on the CIA and FBI personnel, which played directly into the hands of senior intelligence officials who directed the cover-up."



                          Lyndon Johnson, president:


                          "I'll tell you something about Kennedy's murder that will rock you.....Kennedy was trying to get Castro, but Castro got to him first."

                          Richard Russell, Senator and former Warren Commissioner:


                          "We have not been told the truth about Oswald."

                          Hale Boggs, Majority Leader and former Warren Commissioner:


                          "Hoover lied his eyes out to the Commission - on Oswald, on Ruby, on their friends, the bullets, the guns, you name it..."

                          John Sherman Cooper, Senator and former Warren Commissioner:


                          "On what basis is it claimed that two shots caused all the wounds?.....It seemed to me that Governor Connally's statement negates such a conclusion. I could not agree with this statement."

                          Ken O'Donnell, former Special Assistant to JFK:


                          "I told the FBI what I had heard [two shots from behind the grassy knoll fence], but they said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family."

                          Dick Goodwin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs:


                          "We know the CIA was involved, and the Mafia. We all know that."

                          H.R. "Bob" Haldeman, former Nixon chief of staff:


                          "After Kennedy was killed, the CIA launched a fantastic cover-up. Many of the facts about Oswald unavoidably pointed to a Cuban connection.....In a chilling parallel to their cover-up at Watergate, the CIA literally erased any connection between Kennedy's assassination and the CIA."

                          G. Robert Blakey, former Chief Counsel of the HSCA:


                          "I now no longer believe anything the Agency [CIA] told the committee any further than I can obtain substantial corroboration for it from outside the Agency for its veracity.....We also now know that the Agency set up a process that could only have been designed to frustrate the ability of the committee in 1976-79 to obtain any information that might adversely affect the Agency. Many have told me that the culture of the Agency is one of prevarication and dissimulation and that you cannot trust it or its people. Period. End of story. I am now in that camp."
                          http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/inde...ment_Officials
                          "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            Like any good conspiracy theory, you can't make every one believe. It can be like taking the Mules down to the tank and watching to see if they drink. If some people do not believe that is their choice.

                            Personally I see a lot of holes in the Warren Commission and think it was biased. I don't try to force anyone else's belief though.

                            Pruitt
                            Yes the quote about leading a horse to water etc is apt. And many people do believe what they're told. I mean the Zapruder film itself shows there had to be at least 5 shots as opposed to the official 3 just for starters. But the FBI files on Operation CAMTEX from the 1980's which have begun to be researched properly for the first time are making the theory that it was a mob hit not so much a theory any more...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
                              Interesting thread!

                              What are people's take on the photo of Oswald with the gun and a copy of the Communist Manifesto? I didn't know until know that Marina claimed she took it. Photo experts claimed it was doctored. She claimed she didn't know why he wanted it. Either it's real or she's lying.

                              Never made sense if he was actually planning to do the deed. Always smelt like a plant to incriminate him.
                              It is interesting to note that the two papers he is holding were essentially Leninist and the other Trotskyist, two opposing socialist standpoints who often hated each other. A real dedicated soldier of the Soviet cause would know this. Additionally in that whole area Oswald did not actually fraternise with known socialist / Marxist groups that were well known. He only wrote a few letters to them. Instead he was seen hanging around with very right wing anti Castro groups and people from the far right white supremacist community.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                                Yes the quote about leading a horse to water etc is apt. And many people do believe what they're told. I mean the Zapruder film itself shows there had to be at least 5 shots as opposed to the official 3 just for starters. But the FBI files on Operation CAMTEX from the 1980's which have begun to be researched properly for the first time are making the theory that it was a mob hit not so much a theory any more...
                                Where are you 'seeing' 5 shots in the Zapruder film?
                                SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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