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  • copenhagen
    replied
    The issue with the article in itself is that the author Mark Shaw whose book the article is about is going down the line that the mob bumped her off as she was going to say Carlos Marcelo masterminded the whole thing. Now I'm ready to accept that the mafia may well have killed people related to the case and maybe they did kill her to smother any connection but that the mob did it alone. No. I myself went down this rabbit hole off the back of the dodgy Lamar Waldron research which people can see I did early in this thread as did Robert Blakey in the 1970s as part of the HSCA. The connections to the CIA are massive but that the mob acted as mastermind , I don't think so. If this article had been about the CIA , the New York Post wouldn't have run it.
    Last edited by copenhagen; 12 Dec 16, 08:19.

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  • Wooden Wonder
    replied
    'You may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they may not be out to get you'.

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  • copenhagen
    replied
    Oh yes Dorothy Kilgallen. Supposedly got a proper interview with Jack Ruby and claimed she was going to blow the case wide open. Then suddenly lost the will to live.

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Perhaps much here already covered, I haven't followed this thread much, but this is a recent new article, so here for ref. ...

    Journalist’s tell-all on mobster tied to JFK might have gotten her killed

    EXCERPTS:
    ...
    The morning after that show, on Nov. 8, 1965, the 52-year-old newspaper columnist hailed by The Post as “the most powerful female voice in America” was dead in her Manhattan town house. Her body was found sitting up in a bed, naked under a blue bathrobe, with the makeup, false eyelashes and a floral hair accessory she had worn on TV still on.

    After an autopsy, the city’s chief medical examiner, James Luke, put on Kilgallen’s death certificate: “Acute Ethanol and Barbiturate Intoxication, Circumstances Undetermined.” Luke ruled her death accidental, caused by a combination of sleeping pills and booze.
    ...
    Kilgallen, who called “laughable” the Warren Commission’s conclusion that Oswald acted alone, launched her own probe. She compiled a thick file of evidence, interviews and notes, *always keeping it close or under lock and key.

    After her death, the dossier was nowhere to be found.

    “Whoever decided to silence Dorothy, I believe, took that file and burned it,” Shaw says.

    In a letter to Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. to be delivered Monday, Shaw cites fresh evidence unearthed by him and others.

    It includes never-before-released lab results from Kilgallen’s autopsy he obtained under the Freedom of Information Law.

    They reveal the presence of two additional barbiturates in Kilgallen’s system — Tuinal and Nembutal — not just the first-reported Seconal, a sleeping pill for which she had a prescription. The tests also revealed a powder residue on a glass found at her bedside, suggesting that someone opened capsules and poured drugs into her drink, Shaw writes.
    ...
    http://nypost.com/2016/12/04/dorothy...ot-her-killed/

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  • GRA
    replied
    FINALLY FOUND IT FOLKS - AS PROMISED !!!

    Originally posted by GRA View Post
    This film clip I saw put forth the theory that LHO's mom had a double, and/or they were actually 2 different people.

    In some ways the documentary is kind of far-fetched, but ... I keep seeing over and over how there was all kinds of body-doubles and switches being used throughout the years, to include the JFK fiasco. Weren't there reportedly more than one LHO seen in Mexico City?

    Some of you may not find this to be good once I get it on here but I did want everyone to see it and relate what they get from it.

    Thanks again for the patience.
    OK folks ... thanks so much for all your patience. I finally found it. My mistake was searching under LHO Mother and not 2 LHO(s). This is the information from YouTube:

    https://youtu.be/QXuRfnxf2qc

    Now please be advised that you may find it best to sit back and watch this at least once all the way through when you have plenty of time and wont be disturbed because it IS DEEP. Lots of "black is white and white is black" here.

    Unless you're as sharp as a well-honed tack, you'll most likely feel you need to watch it at least twice. For only a little more than 40 minutes there's a lot of information here and a real good theory. IMHO ... it's either absolutely brilliant or it's simply too far-fetched.

    Regardless ... I said I would find it and finally I did. I wanted to keep my word and post it up.

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  • copenhagen
    replied
    Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
    Bugliosi's book came out in 2006, well after the 1990's. I grew up believing there was a conspiracy also since most books and such were pro- conspiracy. Leading up to the House Select Committee hearings in the late 70's, when I was in high school. It wasn't until after JFK movie in the early 90's when I read Case CLosed and watched a PBS documentary that swayed me to possibly Oswald alone did it. Then later with Bugliosi's book and more doc's that I am pretty sure he acted alone. It may turn out someday that he was part of something. Like I said I'm open minded on the subject. But Oswald did in fact kill JD TIppet that is as concrete a case as there can be. Not even arguable. Either way it don't mean much anymore. Young people could care less.
    Much of bugliosis research is from the mock trial which was in the 80s. It ignores and he continues to ignore the mass of evidence that strongly indicates that Oswald did not do anything alone. The Zapruder film especially backed up by the Parkland doctors alone shows that the 3 shot Warren commission was a crock. The timing of tippets murder in line with lho being in the cinema makes that case not concrete at all however even if he did it does not mean he shot JFK alone. You mentioned the hsca. If gaeton fonzis work doesn't make you question the likes of bugliosi and especially the Warren commission well then I cannot help you there. LHO was a slam dunk asset of US intelligence. CIA, ONI and probably an informant for the FBI.

    I do agree however that many people think that the JFK assassination will be a film plot set in an airport near New York.
    Last edited by copenhagen; 24 Nov 16, 03:09.

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  • Mystikeye
    replied
    Bugliosi's book came out in 2006, well after the 1990's. I grew up believing there was a conspiracy also since most books and such were pro- conspiracy. Leading up to the House Select Committee hearings in the late 70's, when I was in high school. It wasn't until after JFK movie in the early 90's when I read Case CLosed and watched a PBS documentary that swayed me to possibly Oswald alone did it. Then later with Bugliosi's book and more doc's that I am pretty sure he acted alone. It may turn out someday that he was part of something. Like I said I'm open minded on the subject. But Oswald did in fact kill JD TIppet that is as concrete a case as there can be. Not even arguable. Either way it don't mean much anymore. Young people could care less.

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  • copenhagen
    replied
    The pigs might fly is about the mafia did it alone .
    I have not a problem with you or your opinions mate so relax.
    As you asked about people in court and all I would say is the quality of witnesses particularly the Parkland trauma team, highly regarded autopsy specialists like Cyril Wecht who was an expert witness in countless cases not to mention the Zapruder film itself show that the Warren commison were picking gnat **** out of pepper. But in top of that the background of Oswald overwhelmingly links him to US intelligence right up to Dallas. The Lafayette/ Camp street connection is a massive lead in of itself with who Oswald would have been associating with not to mention his links to George De mohrenschildt and the woman who got him the job in the TSBD, Ruth Paine, a job. A man who had worked in the U2 spy plane base while being taught fluent Russian ends up using his intellect to stack boxes in a building that just happened to look over the presidents motorcade and to repeat doing a job found for him by a CIA asset. Not to mention using the crappest rifle in history with a paper trail Stevie Wonder could follow. These were socially well connected CIA assets who would have nothing to do normally with a man of Oswalds background. He wasn't lying , he was a patsy a man who used his one phone call to phone a number that belonged to a man who'd been a handler for false defectors for the CIA. I heartily apologise if you felt got at , that is not my MO so I am sorry if you felt that. I am well aware of Bugliosis background in law but that does not negate the evidence that we know have particularly since ARRB in the 90s. The term conspiracy theory is often used derogatorily in the JFK case but under criminal law it merely refers to a crime committed by two or more people . In murder cases that's not exactly rare. I used to totally think as you do. The evidence just doesnt for it.
    Last edited by copenhagen; 23 Nov 16, 14:04.

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  • Mystikeye
    replied
    I've read a lot of books on President Kennedy's assassination since the 70's so many I cant even remember the number. Not to mention the numerous documentaries. So yeah, I think Oswald did it alone he had the ability and inclination, then did so. Many people through out history kill one another. Where there is the will there is a way. Why the pigs fly icon? All I suggested was for people to read Vince's book and the Conspiracy books and make up their own mind. What is so bad about that? Do you fear someone having a different opinion than you do on this? Its been over 50 years and many people believe Oswald was involved in a conspiracy with others and many believe Oswald did it alone.

    How many of the authors of the conspiracy books you obviously believe have ever tried a murder case? For that matter how many investigated and brought forth evidence in court? Vince Bugliosi has and many times over. That's one of the reasons I enjoyed his book. He actually had experience in capital cases and murder investigations. Have you read Reclaiming History? Or just the conspiracy books? How bout Case CLosed by Gerald Posner, another book about Oswald alone?
    Last edited by Mystikeye; 23 Nov 16, 12:11.

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  • copenhagen
    replied
    Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
    I think that Vincent Bugliosi's tome, Reclaiming History is the best book on the Kennedy Assassination that has been written. There are so many others that take the side of conspiracy that I couldn't name them here. I am most convinced by Bugliosi's book and the amount of research he put into writing it, over 20 years. If you are open minded read the conspiracy books and read Bugliosi. See what you think after.
    So you're convinced Oswald was a lone nut with no connections to anyone and he did it all by himself ? Bugliosi nailed his penent to the mast with this years ago but all we now know about Oswald has passed that by. It had mostly passed it by when he wrote it.

    To be fair and I have admitted to this before on this very thread that I got very carried away with Lamar Waldrons "very well researched" book and had me convinced the Mafia pretty much did it amongst other things .
    Last edited by copenhagen; 23 Nov 16, 03:31.

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  • Mystikeye
    replied
    I think that Vincent Bugliosi's tome, Reclaiming History is the best book on the Kennedy Assassination that has been written. There are so many others that take the side of conspiracy that I couldn't name them here. I am most convinced by Bugliosi's book and the amount of research he put into writing it, over 20 years. If you are open minded read the conspiracy books and read Bugliosi. See what you think after.

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  • Drusus Nero
    replied
    53rd anniversary today...22nd November, 2016

    HEY! I just realised something!

    TODAY, November 22 2016 IS the 53rd Anniversary of the Assassination of John Fitzgerald KENNEDY....

    For those not in the know....

    John F. Kennedy, Harvard graduate U.S. Navy Pacific veteran and the son of a diplomat member of a wealthy Boston family, was elected President of the United states by a narrow margin against Richard Nixon, a republican of great standing.

    Taking office with his brother robert as Attorney Generl, Kennedy inherited a cold War against the soviet Union, an america in the throes of social change associated with race, environmentalism and a host of other issues.

    During a trip to Dallas Texas, he was shot in the head by person or persons unknown, an incident that has been called "The Crime of The Century". Debate continues to this day, as the government of Vice-Presient Lyndon Johnson accepted the word of its advisors and tagged an ex-Marine with a classified tax record Lee Harvey OSWALD as responsible for the shooting, setting off a debate which still rages to this day, due to the fact that Oswald was shot to death by a nightclub owner with mob connections Jack Rubenstein, before he could testify at his own trial.

    Technically innocent, (Oswald was never convicted of either murder that he was charged for, ) Lee Oswald continue's to defy analysis as a person, with almost as many versions of his character as Oswald had hot dinners.

    Unless someone comes forward or new eviidence is prooved, the case is unlikely to ever be solved to the satisfaction of the majority of the american voting public.


    Rest In PEACE JOHN KENNEDY
    Last edited by Drusus Nero; 22 Nov 16, 22:27.

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  • GRA
    replied
    Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
    ....interested? Thats only from chapter One.
    She's always been one of my favorite players. Obviously she was one of Oliver Stone's favorite players too as he opened the movie "JFK" with her in the first scene.

    I've read this exact same thing about her and I know there is more. A lot of the information is in Spartacus Educational under he headline there.

    Too bad they did not interview her more in depth and take her more seriously at that time. If you think about it, she basically provided the same warning foretelling the assassination as did the anonymous cable that was received by the FBI on a night shift approx. 1-2 days before the hit.

    What bothers me with the narrative above is this; IF ... she was privileged to information on this type of sensitive operation I find it hard to believe ANYONE would've brought her along being the drug addict she was. She's too much of a risk and the type that wold easily draw attention to herself and others she would be with. If the men she was with were assassin operatives they sure weren't very smart, especially if they knew she was on to their game, and surely would not have let her stay behind alone at the bar. They would've took her with them no matter what the situation, if for nothing else to remove her for the area where she was a nuisance and possible police attractant.

    If they did continue on with her but threw her out of the car then it's possible they thought she would be killed upon impact and maybe this was a hit upon her, either because she was a pain in the ass and/or she knew too much.

    Regardless, I find it very improbable that she thought all this stuff up on her own, which turned out to be the exact hammer that hit the right nail on the head. It's simply to spectacular to be her imagination.

    I looked up where she was supposedly accidentally killed here in Texas and I am somewhat familiar with that area. Big Sandy is a very small community outside of Livingston, Texas in Polk County. There has always been a lot of questionable incidents come out of that area in the past. If she was killed by mistakenly being run over there, I'd say she has the worst coincidental record of being slammed on the side of road(s) of anyone I've ever heard of ... !!!

    We can pretty much be comfortable the known contributions of Ferrie, Shaw, Ruby, LHO, the Paynes, and maybe Marina to this whole affair, but I have often been more interested in a few of the others.

    Rose, of course, is one of them. We simply do not have that much in-depth detail about her BEFORE she was scooped up off the road and hospitalized. Maybe if we did then something even better about her could turn up.

    That Houston dentist has my interest. How in the hell would a dentist of all professions know about a presidential hit? This is interesting in and of itself because he supposedly reported a warning ahead of time. Not much to be found out him.

    Ligget the mortician ... here we have something that screams significance. There is a bit of information worked up on him but not enough IMHO. If what we read about his is true, his involvement reeks of him being a classic "asset". And again, there's not much else about him but we cannot deny that he would be a most Key player.

    And my favorite question mark of all ... J.D. Tippett. His whole situation just does not seem right. Why the hell would he be looking for LHO in Oak Cliff? LHO had already changed clothes from what he wore to work that morning and when he was encountered he was simply walking on a sidewalk. Was it him that stopped in front of LHO's boarding house in a marked unit and honked before immediately leaving? Allegedly the spare uniform in his cruiser did not fit him but DID fit LHO. We know some things about him, but not very much. I think if we did a lot more of our questions wold be answered.

    Sometimes it's the smaller-appearing players like these that fill in more pieces of the puzzle.

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  • Drusus Nero
    replied
    The first evidence of conspiracy, along with a conspiracy theory itself, appeared in EUNICE in the form of ROSE CHERAMI

    "Ruling out the possibility of clairvoyance and magic bullets, (Rose Chermie's) "prediction" was an indication of foreknowledge.....Cherami, as she is known to JFK researchers stated on Nov 20, 1963, in Eunice, that the President of the United States would be murdered in Dallas on Friday, two days hence. After the assassination, she was quite possibly the first person to link Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby.

    Born Melba Christian Marcades, in Houston, Texas, (exact date unknown) in 1923.

    Chermi, according to FBI files and Louisiana State Police records, was known to have over 35 aliases......


    Mrs. Albert Rodman
    Patsy Sue Allen
    Christine Youngblood
    Mickey Rodman
    Melba Christiene
    Melba Rodman
    Melba Christian Nicols
    Rosa Lee Stewart
    Zada Marie Johnson
    Connie Mackey
    Penny Sue Marcades
    Zada Lynn Gano
    Zada Garacino
    Rose Elaine Evans
    Marie Stewert
    Zada Irene Scars
    Zada Marie Green
    Rose Elaine Edwards
    Roselle Rene Cherami
    Rozella Clinkscales
    Rose L. Cherami
    Rosalie Jeanne Crawford
    Connie Mackey
    Zada Jano

    Legend has it that somewhere on this Highway 190 outside Eunice, a speeding lone vehicle carried two men, and temporarily, one woman named Rose.....

    ("They stopped at the roadside bar and restaurant near Eunice. She had gotten a little hig, and her companions had abandoned her.The owner of the restaurant then threw her out of the his place. While she was trying to hitch a ride, she was grazed by a car and injured slightly. Shortly after that, Lt Francis Fruge picked her up from the roadside
    .".....John H. Davis, "Mafia Kingfish, (a book about....Carlos Marcello and the JFK assassination, p193-194.)

    "Its plausible that the assassination 'run' was disguised as a drug run, a prime example of Mafia 'multi-tasking'. There may have been an audible call to shift from the narcotics focus, to have the mechanics, the hired guns, be mindful of only one thing that week: getting the President of the United states.

    Rose would have to be left behind for whatever reason.

    "Something must have struck rose on that afternoon in Eunice. Whether it was a moving vehicle, a momentary sence of reason, anger, or the value of life regardless of her own. Perhaps all these things hit Rose at once.

    In a cloud of opiates, Rose Cheremi staggered to her feet from the side of the road. She was possibly bloodied from the scrapes, and bruised, and she might have been oblivious to the pick-up truck that struck her.

    More than likely, Rose was the source of her own legend as she later told of how she was "thrown out of a moving vehicle". This way, Rose, who harboured the mind of a junkie and criminal capable of playing the system- would appear as a victim to medical staff and law enforcement. After all, getting hit by a vehicle on the side of the road because she was high on dope was a story that was incriminating and garnered less sympathy.

    as far as her hell-bent road companions were concerned, Rose Chermi was now someone elses problem on Highway 190.

    And if Rose was telling the truth, the vehicle that she had been riding in that day reached Dallas later that evening.
    ....interested? Thats only from Chapter One!
    Last edited by Drusus Nero; 14 Nov 16, 22:40.

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  • GRA
    replied
    Thanks for posting this about the book as it is a must-read here soon.

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