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  • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
    There was a cover up of the evidence for a number of reasons I believe by the authorities and not in any particular order of merit.
    • The initial fear that the assassination was or could be linked to Castro and or the USSR leading to a nuclear war.
    • The Warren Commission wanted the world for the reasons above to make LHO a lone nut assassin and deflect any attention away from Cuba. However as we know to be very probable, LHO was most likely an operative of the CIA or ONI. Furthermore his name had been used by the intelligence services for at least two years in one form or another. The Mexico city episode for example and even as a name to buy trucks I believe as far as back as 1961. These agencies didn't want this mans name to become associated with them under any circumstances.
    • It now seems very clear that LHO had had contact possibly as an informant of some sort for the FBI. They would never want to have their name attached to this man particularly a man like J. Edgar Hoover whose primary motivation was the Bureaus reputation and the power he wielded from it.
    • An investigation of LHO's intel connections would lead the public to the plots to kill Castro and actual murders like that of Trujillo. Assassinating foreign dignitaries in this fashion was taboo anyway but to also expose the CIA invited involvement of the Mafia would end the careers of all those concerned. Don't forget Richard Helms had carried on with the relationship with the mob after the CIA had been explicitly ordered to stop by the Kennedy government
    • We are now aware of an imminent operation to start a coup involving a very high ranked Cuban official scheduled to happen a short time after JFK was murdered. His identity was considered sacrosanct and for many years afterwards.
    • Men such as LBJ and RFK who was still attorney general with RFK in particular apparently deeply concerned that activities he had been deeply involved in could have been turned around against his beloved brother.

    From the evidence I have read this is why I believe the authorities covered up the evidence pertaining to the case and continued to do so for some time afterwards. The reputation of the nation in regards to their institutions is why I believe they continue to do so.
    Very good points, this info has been gleaned thanks to diligent researchers and by the investigations of the HSCA and by doc's uncovered by the ARRB.
    There was particular effort made before the assassination to infer a link with LHO to Cuba.

    Also, as you state, as the HSCA was underway several chief Mafia figures who had been testifying and were to still testify were murdered. It was a shock to the nation in 1978 when it was uncovered that the CIA and the Mafia had colluded in efforts to kill Castro. I know there are young people today that don't know about this, and would be surprised to find out about it.
    "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by unclefred View Post
      Very good points, this info has been gleaned thanks to diligent researchers and by the investigations of the HSCA and by doc's uncovered by the ARRB.
      There was particular effort made before the assassination to infer a link with LHO to Cuba.

      Also, as you state, as the HSCA was underway several chief Mafia figures who had been testifying and were to still testify were murdered. It was a shock to the nation in 1978 when it was uncovered that the CIA and the Mafia had colluded in efforts to kill Castro. I know there are young people today that don't know about this, and would be surprised to find out about it.
      Yes I concur. Those serious investigators really must be commended highly. As you mentioned that individuals had pointed the blame at Cuba post the assassination, its seems that much of this noise came from people associated with the mob and or certain members of the Cuban exile community. One John Martino being a notable example.
      It is interesting to note that even after the revelations of the HSCA, that society as a whole didn't really latch on to it, most notably the media who steered away from it and mostly still do. Even the supposed awakener of society Oliver Stone's JFK never attended much to this preferring to focus on the supposed collusion of the CIA establishment and the "Military Industrial Complex" I think that appealed more to Stones sensibilities I suspect. That Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli and Jimmy Hoffa were all murdered in such a short time when they were supposed to be testifying is mostly overlooked. That Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello ( whom Jack Ruby worked for ) are pretty much known to have ordered the hits passed them all by. The HSCA in the mid 70's has always struck me as a more incisive investigation than Garrison's was. The most telling point being that Clay Shaw was brought to the attention of the Garrison investigation of Garrison by an investigative lawyer who worked for Marcello. The plot thickens...

      Have you heard of Michel Mertz?
      Last edited by copenhagen; 04 Jul 13, 15:40.

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      • Have you heard of Michel Mertz?
        Yes, I read Legacy of Secrecy and also run across his name in other readings. The fact that he was involved with Trafficante and Marcello is of high interest.
        "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by unclefred View Post
          Yes, I read Legacy of Secrecy and also run across his name in other readings. The fact that he was involved with Trafficante and Marcello is of high interest.
          and removed from the nation on the 24th of November having known to have been in Dallas in the preceeding days? The mind boggles...

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          • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
            The govenment did cover things up post the assasination of that there is no doubt from the FBI to the CIA and the Warren Commision. However the notion that LBJ and the wider intelligence community commited a coup I think is nonsense... There was a cover up but not for the reasons many think...There is the conspiracy to murder (if there was one) and the conspiracy to cover certain things up. By and large they were two seperate things. Some can't deal with that but there you go..
            Oh hell anyone from Texas knows LBJ was in on it. You can know something without being able to prove it. The whole deal was a conspiracy on two levels. The murder and the cover up.

            That being said, I couldn't care less. All the Kennedy's were and are dirtbags and deserved what they got. It's just to bad Teddy never caught a bullet and lived so long only to die in the end from cancer. One can always hope it was worse than a bullet.
            Culper Spy Ring (We still exist)

            He that spies kills ~ Irish Proverb

            There are more leaks here than in the men’s room at Anheuser-Busch. ~ Barry Goldwater

            "...Ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free." ~ John 8:32

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ben Tallmadge View Post
              Oh hell anyone from Texas knows LBJ was in on it. You can know something without being able to prove it. The whole deal was a conspiracy on two levels. The murder and the cover up.

              That being said, I couldn't care less. All the Kennedy's were and are dirtbags and deserved what they got. It's just to bad Teddy never caught a bullet and lived so long only to die in the end from cancer. One can always hope it was worse than a bullet.
              Hmmmm...Charming. More reading required I think...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post

                Have you heard of Michel Mertz?
                Rings a bell. Saw a doc years ago, The Man/Men Who Killed Kennedy, or something like that. In it is some geezer with a beard talking about complicity with (at some point in life, possibly going back to WWII) about a group of professional assassins that got their start selectively killing Nazis, some later going into the FFF, others into the dope biz, and others as contract professional assassins (a 'la a kind of Jackal twist), and I think this guy's name popped up. The only reason I recall the name is because it stuck as the same as Fred Mertz's, Ethel's hubby on I Love Lucy.

                Christ. I can remember that, but have a hard time with anniversaries, birthdays, or things you'd associate with being more important.
                Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                  Rings a bell. Saw a doc years ago, The Man/Men Who Killed Kennedy, or something like that. In it is some geezer with a beard talking about complicity with (at some point in life, possibly going back to WWII) about a group of professional assassins that got their start selectively killing Nazis, some later going into the FFF, others into the dope biz, and others as contract professional assassins (a 'la a kind of Jackal twist), and I think this guy's name popped up. The only reason I recall the name is because it stuck as the same as Fred Mertz's, Ethel's hubby on I Love Lucy.

                  Christ. I can remember that, but have a hard time with anniversaries, birthdays, or things you'd associate with being more important.
                  Well Richard Helms/William Harvey as part of ZR Rifle programme had an agent codenamed QJWIN; a foreign agent tasked with recruiting foreign assassins. It is known that this man was French and a part of the French Connection heroin group run at the US end by Santos Trafficante who was also instrumental in the plots to kill Castro. QJWIN's movements do seem to have a lot of parallels to one Michel Victor Mertz a known French assassin who according to the CIA was deported from the Dallas area a few days after November 22nd. Interesting reading...

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                  • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                    Christ. I can remember that, but have a hard time with anniversaries, birthdays, or things you'd associate with being more important.
                    I'm the same way, don't feel bad.
                    Culper Spy Ring (We still exist)

                    He that spies kills ~ Irish Proverb

                    There are more leaks here than in the men’s room at Anheuser-Busch. ~ Barry Goldwater

                    "...Ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free." ~ John 8:32

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ben Tallmadge View Post
                      I'm the same way, don't feel bad.
                      Wife almost nailed me once with this...

                      Do you know what day this is?
                      Yeah, Thursday.

                      Then she goes crazy with the IT'S OUR ANNIVERSARY and about put me on the No Nookie Until Halley's Comet Returns List when recollection and fast-thinking hit...

                      You didn't give me a chance to finish before going-off on me. I was about to say before you went nuts, it's Thursday yada yada yada and we were married yada yada years ago and that I love you and have a nice surprise...we're going to Las Vegas this weekend.

                      Whew. Stole third-base and slide home safe with that one.
                      Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by HMS Jr. View Post
                        Wife almost nailed me once with this...

                        Do you know what day this is?
                        Yeah, Thursday.

                        Then she goes crazy with the IT'S OUR ANNIVERSARY and about put me on the No Nookie Until Halley's Comet Returns List when recollection and fast-thinking hit...

                        You didn't give me a chance to finish before going-off on me. I was about to say before you went nuts, it's Thursday yada yada yada and we were married yada yada years ago and that I love you and have a nice surprise...we're going to Las Vegas this weekend.

                        Whew. Stole third-base and slide home safe with that one.


                        You're the Mac Daddy

                        Culper Spy Ring (We still exist)

                        He that spies kills ~ Irish Proverb

                        There are more leaks here than in the men’s room at Anheuser-Busch. ~ Barry Goldwater

                        "...Ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free." ~ John 8:32

                        Comment


                        • Hi

                          I'm not a fan of conspiracies especially those surrounding JFK, but I was interested to learn that certain segments of Texas 'oil' society were in the mix of possible conspiracies.

                          Regards
                          "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                          "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                          • Originally posted by Andy H View Post
                            Hi

                            I'm not a fan of conspiracies especially those surrounding JFK, but I was interested to learn that certain segments of Texas 'oil' society were in the mix of possible conspiracies.

                            Regards
                            Clint Murchison.
                            Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Andy H View Post
                              Hi

                              I'm not a fan of conspiracies especially those surrounding JFK, but I was interested to learn that certain segments of Texas 'oil' society were in the mix of possible conspiracies.

                              Regards
                              In this case having read a decent chunk of stuff on this subject I prefer to view it as looking at evidence in a murder investigation rather an arbitrary conspiracy theory where people often look see things they want to see and the more outlandish the better. JFK would have prevented Vietnam for example therefore he was murdered by the Military Industrial complex and so forth...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                                In this case having read a decent chunk of stuff on this subject I prefer to view it as looking at evidence in a murder investigation rather an arbitrary conspiracy theory where people often look see things they want to see and the more outlandish the better. JFK would have prevented Vietnam for example therefore he was murdered by the Military Industrial complex and so forth...
                                My thoughts:

                                If not planned, it sure turned out with fortuitous results for any involved others. The whole notion of conspiracies, as-in the theories of same.

                                Just by using the term, "conspiracy theories" it has a preconceived negative impact. Like "nuts" that formulate then promote them, and "suckers", or whatever term you find applicable, that buy into them while perhaps not looking past all or some of that and possibly considering things like:

                                JFK was indeed murdered, and in all US jurisdictions a criminal conspiracy is completed and had if two or more people are in on the deal whether him, they, whoever have prior knowledge of what's going to happen in planning knowledge and do nothing about it and let it go, as planned. Some jurisdictions require an overt act, some don't but most do. The State Of Texas where the murder took place requires a certain amount of follow-through. Conspiracy is statutory, not constitutional.

                                If it truly holds that LHO did indeed murder JFK of and by his own singular planning and volition, then a criminal conspiracy wouldn't apply. The thing is, if just one other person knew and was involved, then you have not only a case of criminal conspiracy in se between LHO and whoever, but then conceivably more co-conspirators. At that point one has to ask themselves why Jack Ruby wasn't deposed and taken to DC for his deposition as requested.

                                At the ^above point^ it's reasonable to inquire why the State Of Texas didn't stop with all the power it had the removal of those very items necessary to prevent the absconding of all evidence, to an otherwise but for it happening to a sitting president, and taken back to DC.

                                At this point I'm now starting to wonder who signed for his body to be removed, period. I know the president's doctor signed his death-certificate, but that's not a removal satisfying prerogative in Texas, then or now. That's a next of kin issue. Jackie sign? I found/read nothing to confirm or deny either way:

                                Go here, to the National Archives, and then scroll down to Removal Of The President's Body:

                                http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk...2.html#removal

                                Then, there's a little matter of Texas jurisdictional procedure of requiring an autopsy in Texas where the homicide was committed, not Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington, DC.

                                None of the above, and more, is a conspiracy theory as we've come to know and accept, it's fact. Start putting all that together and it raises some very serious questions that may or may not come out regardless of a 2030 revelation outcome.

                                Have you ever took note of those with the funds (I'd love to include motive as well, but won't) to afford documentaries for the most part spend more time trying to debunk (and succeeding, sometimes sensibly) conspiracy theories than digging more into those things that are factual in nature and scope? I have. One, that In The Assassination Limo thing with Michael Yardley is a good illustration. OK, we know he was shot and from likely where, hits and all. OK. Fine. But so far, I think, it hasn't accounted forall shots heard by countless people (and one either WWII or Korea CIB holding war vet who you think would know from experience), strikes (like one or so to the pavement), and a few other matters including...

                                ...people on the scene who were photographed and ID'ed with some verrrry interesting backgrounds. Something's not adding up in all of this. Too bad I'll be long gone if/when there's any positive/truthful clothing coming out in the wash.
                                Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

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