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Argentine government to undermine Falklands Referendum

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Selous View Post
    On a recent article I wrote about Gib, some snarky commentator pointed out that under UN law a vote to remain in place, if conducted by a 'settler' or 'colonial' people doesn't count as they're there 'illegally'. Good luck getting the police force to carry out that 'law.
    Would 'settler' or 'colonial' people include much of the Argentine population? or indeed much of the population of North and South America.

    I presume only the Aborigional people are allowed in Australian elections and the Moari in New Zealand
    Cymru am Byth

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    • #32
      The argentinian government had a training ship impounded and couldn't afford to pay up, so god knows where they will get the money from.
      They have been playing a propaganda campaign against britain ever since the mess they created in 82, even getting some of their olympians to run up and down the british war memorial in the Falklands.
      I don't know if anyone has seen the argentine movie about the falklands war, but its worse than a geobbles movie and portrays the islanders as welcoming them as liberators.
      The argentinian govermnent always focuses on the falklands when it wants to distract its population from its own domestic problems

      Sent from my GT-I5500 using Tapatalk 2

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Kevinmeath View Post
        Would 'settler' or 'colonial' people include much of the Argentine population? or indeed much of the population of North and South America.

        I presume only the Aborigional people are allowed in Australian elections and the Moari in New Zealand
        I often wonder that one myself. The problem is this double standard. Argentinians of course are mostly immigrant stock, what aboriginal peoples were there were decimated and outbred. I think it's a question of how far you go back. As I understand it the Argentine government want to take it to some point, which I do not know if true, wherin Argentina had already seceded or what have you from Spain's grip, but before the islands were under British control. If that existed.
        I'm fairly sure that the modern international system as we recognise it hadn't really come into being at that time, with its various institutions, so I'm not sure of the legal grounds in that one.
        ------
        'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Selous View Post
          I often wonder that one myself. The problem is this double standard. Argentinians of course are mostly immigrant stock, what aboriginal peoples were there were decimated and outbred. I think it's a question of how far you go back. As I understand it the Argentine government want to take it to some point, which I do not know if true, wherin Argentina had already seceded or what have you from Spain's grip, but before the islands were under British control. If that existed.
          I'm fairly sure that the modern international system as we recognise it hadn't really come into being at that time, with its various institutions, so I'm not sure of the legal grounds in that one.

          I seem to half remember reading somewhere (sometime) that international law (whatever that is) will not go back more than 150 years, one of the possible reasons for the invasion.
          Cymru am Byth

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Selous View Post
            I often wonder that one myself. The problem is this double standard. Argentinians of course are mostly immigrant stock, what aboriginal peoples were there were decimated and outbred. I think it's a question of how far you go back. As I understand it the Argentine government want to take it to some point, which I do not know if true, wherin Argentina had already seceded or what have you from Spain's grip, but before the islands were under British control. If that existed.
            I'm fairly sure that the modern international system as we recognise it hadn't really come into being at that time, with its various institutions, so I'm not sure of the legal grounds in that one.
            Another point to keep in mind, and not one recalled by the folks that seem to believe that the UK is bullying around Argentina, is that the Falkland Islands were not populated either by Spaniards, Argentinians, or an aboriginal population. For a colony to be colony one implies the existence of a native population that either found itself dominated, displaced, or eliminated by the colonists. That is clearly not the case with the Falklands. If anything the reverse is true; Buenos Aires is trying to impose its will on a population that does not identify with Argentina. In other words Buenos Aires is trying to play colonial power by painting itself as the victim in the eyes of the world. It was pure malarkey when the military junta invaded and it is still pure malarkey now.
            Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

            Initiated Chief Petty Officer
            Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
              Another point to keep in mind, and not one recalled by the folks that seem to believe that the UK is bullying around Argentina, is that the Falkland Islands were not populated either by Spaniards, Argentinians, or an aboriginal population. For a colony to be colony one implies the existence of a native population that either found itself dominated, displaced, or eliminated by the colonists. That is clearly not the case with the Falklands. If anything the reverse is true; Buenos Aires is trying to impose its will on a population that does not identify with Argentina. In other words Buenos Aires is trying to play colonial power by painting itself as the victim in the eyes of the world. It was pure malarkey when the military junta invaded and it is still pure malarkey now.
              What you say is so true, back in 85 my battalion did a 6 month tour and the locals hated anything to do with argentina and were more patriotic and british than we were.
              To be honest its a dull boring place but the weather and terrain are challenging and i found this out when i did my jnco cadre there.
              I have not been there since and certainly would not want to fight for it. but bullies have to be stood up to and the argentiniao prime minister needs to look at recent history to know that it would be unwise to take a step too far.

              Sent from my GT-I5500 using Tapatalk 2
              Last edited by queensman; 03 Dec 12, 19:43.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                Another point to keep in mind, and not one recalled by the folks that seem to believe that the UK is bullying around Argentina, is that the Falkland Islands were not populated either by Spaniards, Argentinians, or an aboriginal population. For a colony to be colony one implies the existence of a native population that either found itself dominated, displaced, or eliminated by the colonists. That is clearly not the case with the Falklands. If anything the reverse is true; Buenos Aires is trying to impose its will on a population that does not identify with Argentina. In other words Buenos Aires is trying to play colonial power by painting itself as the victim in the eyes of the world. It was pure malarkey when the military junta invaded and it is still pure malarkey now.
                Hi

                Indeed, it not a colony but a Dominion if anything, but for Admin purposes etc it was granted Dependency status back in the day

                Regards
                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Selous View Post
                  On a recent article I wrote about Gib, some snarky commentator pointed out that under UN law a vote to remain in place, if conducted by a 'settler' or 'colonial' people doesn't count as they're there 'illegally'. Good luck getting the police force to carry out that 'law.
                  Does that mean all the elections in the USA over the last 224 years are invalid

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by redcoat View Post
                    Does that mean all the elections in the USA over the last 224 years are invalid
                    I think it relates more to elections on whether they want to be part of such and such z country or independent, etc, such as Falklands and Gib, rather than the internal elections to decide whose in charge. Hence the UN's involvment, as it's inter, not intra-state.
                    ------
                    'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Selous View Post
                      I think it relates more to elections on whether they want to be part of such and such z country or independent, etc, such as Falklands and Gib, rather than the internal elections to decide whose in charge. Hence the UN's involvment, as it's inter, not intra-state.
                      So whether or not Australia becomes a republic is nothing to do with 'Australians' but only the aborigional people?

                      Could the British crown as the native Americans if they could have the 13 colonies back?
                      Cymru am Byth

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kevinmeath View Post
                        So whether or not Australia becomes a republic is nothing to do with 'Australians' but only the aborigional people?

                        Could the British crown as the native Americans if they could have the 13 colonies back?
                        It's full of all kinds of logic loopholes I'd imagine, but that's probably fairly typical of international law. If a picture paints a thousand words, I have but one to offer on the issue of the Argentine legal claim;

                        ------
                        'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                        If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Kevinmeath View Post
                          So whether or not Australia becomes a republic is nothing to do with 'Australians' but only the aborigional people?

                          Could the British crown as the native Americans if they could have the 13 colonies back?
                          No and no. The native American tribes were a collections of individual nations conquered piecemeal; they were divided so they were conquered. I am not sure what the exact situation was and is with Australia's aboriginal peoples but to the best of my knowledge they are nomadic peoples a good deal more primitive than native Americans. Either way if you open that Pandora's Box where do you stop? As I have pointed out before, Italy has much more of a claim on Corsica than Argentina has on the Falklands and that is hardly the only example.
                          Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                          Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                          Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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                          • #43
                            Having lived in Uruguay, and met Argentines, I can honestly say those people should start straightening out their own problems.

                            Argentina has been fond of wars throughout its history and this is another effort to distract from their disastrous situation. This could end up as the South American equivalent of the Russian Revolution. I would flag this with a yellow, the argentines still do not get it. And this after over 200 years of trying to run their own affairs in a land of natural riches which have been hopelessly mismanaged throughout its history.
                            Last edited by Nickuru; 04 Dec 12, 23:14. Reason: spelling
                            When looking for the reason why things go wrong, never rule out stupidity, Murphy's Law Nș 8
                            Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. George Santayana
                            "Ach du schwein" a German parrot captured at Bukoba GEA the only prisoner taken

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                              I have already posted quite a bit on this subject and I am frankly tired of repeating myself. I recommend that you do a bit of research on the history of the Falklands before you go galloping to the defense of Argentina and you can start by looking up my previous posts.
                              Now you know that's you've been at ACG too long.

                              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                              • #45
                                It would appear that the Argentine government is up to its usual tricks
                                http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...sh-cruise-ship

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