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  • Foreigners in Europe

    I would like to make a discussion about the immigrants in Europe.
    In the past years the European politics towards immigrants has changed a bit.
    France has ordered the deportation of many immigrants, German chancelor Angela Merkel has said that the Multicultural Germany has failed, and the Swiss have decided to kick all foreigners who do not obey the Swiss laws.

    And i would especially like to hear the oppinion of Other Europeans about their views of the immigrants.
    Do you think that they bring good, or are they just pesky intruders who come to your lands and with the bring crime, corruption, and their family hordes?
    What do you think where will this go?
    Will there be a solution, will the foreigners be deported back to their lands or will something nasty happen?

  • #2
    If we go back far enough we are all foreigners. I have no problem with anyone from any country coming to live in my country as long as they become Irish, raise their kids as Irish and respect our laws. If they don't like our laws and customs then don't come here. The same applies for Irish people going to other countries.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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    • #3
      I'm rather partial to foreigners in Europe.

      Been one for years and don't plan on changing any time soon.

      While I'm at it, welcome to ACG and thanks for joining. You may have noticed that we have a number of Germans here and most all make quality post. I hope you stay true to form.

      Grussle aus Stuttgart
      Last edited by Half Pint John; 01 Dec 10, 12:28.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        I'm rather partial to foreigners in Europe.

        Been one for years and don't plan on changing any time soon.

        While I'm at it, welcome to ACG and thanks for joining. You may have noticed that we have a number of Germans here and most all make quality post. I hope you stay true to form.

        Grussle aus Stuttgart
        Well thank you!

        Althou i dont live in Germany i feel very much german and i might live there some day.

        And of course, Germany is called "Land der dichter und denker" so we are a bit posh when it comes to writing.
        Last edited by Friedrich; 01 Dec 10, 13:33.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          If we go back far enough we are all foreigners. I have no problem with anyone from any country coming to live in my country as long as they become Irish, raise their kids as Irish and respect our laws. If they don't like our laws and customs then don't come here. The same applies for Irish people going to other countries.
          I apsolutely agree with that. If foreigners want to come to another country, they should assimilate, but from what i know (and i might be wrong) that is not the case with most of european immigrants. And that is my primary concern, is there a solution for them?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Friedrich View Post
            [...]Swiss have decided to kick all foreigners who do not obey the Swiss laws.
            Can't fault them for that can you. I really wish other countries would do the same.
            Winnie says
            ---------------------------------
            "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

            It was an Accident."
            Herr Flick.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
              If we go back far enough we are all foreigners. I have no problem with anyone from any country coming to live in my country as long as they become Irish, raise their kids as Irish and respect our laws. If they don't like our laws and customs then don't come here. The same applies for Irish people going to other countries.
              Hi

              I think any logical person would see the sense in what you have written.

              The only note I would add, is that in this day and age we seem to expect everything to happen there and then or within a generation. Though the US is the historical melting pot, the broad harmony within the US didn't happen overnight. Cultural ghetto's still exist in the US (some are celebrated) even after 4-5 generations. Most immigrants popn in Europe are maybe 3rd generation. Until we see the immigrants become successful and richer, moving beyond the cultural ghetto's, we wont see a marked improvement.

              Also the type of immigrant and numbers are causing issues within the national fabrics of countries. Part of this is caused by ignorance on both sides, the barriers placed on purpose or by default to protect jobs.

              The typical chant is bloody foreigners coming here and taking all our jobs-But yet few nationals are generally willing to do these jobs. The nationals tend to have intial higher aspirations, thus the immigrants fill the void. Eventually the (first generation) immigrants wont want these jobs because of there raised aspirations, and others will arrive to fill that void. So on and so on

              Regards
              "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

              "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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              • #8
                I would like to know opinions about the "immigrants wont asssimilate" version of the story. What will happen in the near future? could they possibly be dangerous? If there is a melting pot happening in Europe, it might change the culture of the "natives". so how do the natives feel about it?

                I live in Croatia, and we dont have that problem here( becouse nobody will come to live here ) so i would really like to know the opinions of the European "natives" (particulary Germans )

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Friedrich View Post
                  I apsolutely agree with that. If foreigners want to come to another country, they should assimilate, but from what i know (and i might be wrong) that is not the case with most of european immigrants. And that is my primary concern, is there a solution for them?
                  I disagree that is only the case with recent immigrants. Also you seem to skip over the fact there are two kinds of immigrants, within Europe and from outside. BTW never heard many complaints about immigrants from East Asia for example.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by joea View Post
                    BTW never heard many complaints about immigrants from East Asia for example.
                    You've not been listening to some on here then.
                    Winnie says
                    ---------------------------------
                    "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                    It was an Accident."
                    Herr Flick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I welcome immigrants, but only if they know and understand the laws and values of my society, and make sure their own habits and values are compatible.
                      Speaking in regards to my country and generalizing a bit, the worst that comes to mind are gypsies who come here to live in houses provided by the state and the taxpayer, live by their own laws regardless (only in-tribe marriage, girls can not go to school, arranged marriages a 10 years old), and make a living running an illegal market that runs on counterfeit goods and pay no taxes throughout their entire lives. Meanwhile complaining on the news about everything, running organized crime and putting children to work as beggars and thieves while forbidding them to go to school.
                      Call me intolerant all you want, this is how I see it and it is a huge problem to me. On the good side, are the many middle class immigrants from our former colonies, namely Angola, Brazil and Cape Verde. While some come here poor, get a house form the government in a bad neighborhood and turn to crime, as happens to some immigrants everywhere, there are a significant number of hardworking people with no cultural demands or complexes, more than welcome to come. Another good example are the Chinese immigrants: they work hard, socialize with the residents, make good honest business, and plan to stay. You don't hear them complaining about anything.

                      So, in my opinion, Europe doesn't have a problem with immigration as a concept, for honest and well meaning people it is one of the best places to immigrate to. Europe has a problem with bad immigrants: the ones who refuse to integrate, come here knowing the beliefs and behaviours they are unwilling to abandon are incompatible with those of the host. I do think we need a strong immigrational flux, to solve our demographic problems. And these immigrants are welcome in all colours and races. But in order for this to work we need to make a serious effort in keeping out and kicking out the religious fanatics, the closed cultures, the criminals, the state-feeders. Otherwise it ruins the whole concept.

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                      • #12
                        I don't mind immigrants, it's good to have cultural diversity, or at least IMO. It breeds tolerance, and it also means you have access to a good variety of foreign food.

                        Of course, I expect immigrants to:

                        1. Be valuable members of society.
                        2. To understand and adopt the local customs for the most part.
                        3. Respect our laws and be 100% loyal to the country they are living in, not their mother country.
                        A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
                          I don't mind immigrants, it's good to have cultural diversity, or at least IMO. It breeds tolerance, and it also means you have access to a good variety of foreign food.

                          Of course, I expect immigrants to:

                          1. Be valuable members of society.
                          2. To understand and adopt the local customs for the most part.
                          3. Respect our laws and be 100% loyal to the country they are living in, not their mother country.
                          I only get a 2 and a half of your three. America well have to go a long way down hill until I MIGHT think otherwise, but then I didn't immigrate. Just staying awhile.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                            Grussle aus Stuttgart


                            I'll look out for a grumpy elderly gentleman beating up other grumpy elderly gentlemen who demonstrate against S21 when I watch TV next time.

                            I'm assuming you're for...

                            Anyhow, becoming german is not necessary IMO. Respecting the law and learning the language is. And bringing up your kids at least german-ish, also for the best of your kids to not become isolated and fail in society later...

                            Just because you where unlucky enough to fall in love with - say - an irish woman that doesnt want to leave the island (I'm assuming there are those mythtical creatures? ) doesnt mean you have to become irish or leave your wife, no? However, learning the language and respecting the laws seems to be a minimum for me.
                            Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
                            Wirft über Land und Meer
                            Weithin der deutsche Aar
                            Flammenden Blick.

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                            • #15
                              I wonder if I am a migrant worker or an immigrant. I know I am not going to stay here for 5 years, which it takes to apply for citizenship.
                              In a swamp scum rises to the top

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