Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

French xenophobia

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • French xenophobia

    This was a recorded show on public television. At the end of the show the presenter asks a comedian whether he will now give the Roman salute and the comedian says he will give him the Romanian salute instead. Then he puts his hand out, bends a bit and uses a line used by beggars in Paris.


  • #2
    Why I am not surprised? Not just restricted to France btw.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm, doesn't it mean "Roma" salute which is now PC for "Gypsy:?

      Well, wincing horribly when somebody halfway across the world doesn't speak French should have its extreme side. I'm only surprised the whole audience took part in all this. I'm no big fan of the Gypsies as I regularly witness them practicing some of their ancient trades on the city's streets in summer, but this is a bit too much.
      www.histours.ru

      Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by joea View Post
        Why I am not surprised? Not just restricted to France btw.
        At least the show's audience was not entirely populated by mindless drones. You can see at second 30 that the young guy in the striped shirt in the bottom left corner wasn't too enthusiastic about playing the poor taste role the producers imposed on the audience.

        I know it's not restricted to France alone and this is softer than other things said and written. From what you know does this happen to other nations/groups too or are Romanians the only ones targeted by this kind of things?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ShAA View Post
          Hmm, doesn't it mean "Roma" salute which is now PC for "Gypsy:?

          Well, wincing horribly when somebody halfway across the world doesn't speak French should have its extreme side. I'm only surprised the whole audience took part in all this. I'm no big fan of the Gypsies as I regularly witness them practicing some of their ancient trades on the city's streets in summer, but this is a bit too much.
          From what I and others have understood the presenter said "Roman" and the comedian said "Roumain" (meaning Romanian). No "Roma" involved. I also read that the show was recorded and the whole thing was staged (all the audience getting up in masse and mimicking what the comedian did). So I don't think it was a mistake or a joke taken too far on live tv.

          It was offensive to Romanian ethnics and I believe it was to Gypsy ethnics too although they were not the ones directly named. And for us it's another instance of hollow is the motto of the "progressive" EU - unity in diversity.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's a night live show with laurent Ruquier as host, the "target" is another live show host Thierry Ardisson, that the guy is inpersonnating and making fun of.
            The Roms are not the target, it's a pun between salut Romain and salut Roumain!

            http://www.alvinet.com/actualite/art...-ardisson.html


            kelt

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kelt06 View Post
              It's a night live show with laurent Ruquier as host, the "target" is another live show host Thierry Ardisson, that the guy is inpersonnating and making fun of.
              The Roms are not the target, it's a pun between salut Romain and salut Roumain!

              http://www.alvinet.com/actualite/art...-ardisson.html


              kelt
              Yes Kelt, they didn't target Roms (Gypsies) directly but they targeted Romanians. A strange quasi-explanation could be that they do this because targeting Gypsies outright can be labeled racism but they can get away with calling them Romanians since Romanians are of indo-european/caucasian race just like most of the French. If they (the Roms/Gypsies) happen to actually have Romanian citizenship so much the better.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                Yes Kelt, they didn't target Roms (Gypsies) directly but they targeted Romanians. A strange quasi-explanation could be that they do this because targeting Gypsies outright can be labeled racism but they can get away with calling them Romanians since Romanians are of indo-european/caucasian race just like most of the French. If they (the Roms/Gypsies) happen to actually have Romanian citizenship so much the better.
                I disagree, if you don't speak French you can't understand the pun, there is nothing such as racism in it, you need to see the whole show and to be familiar with the antics of Ardisson the guy who was made fun of to understand what went on.

                Now if you have nothing more important to report, you are a happy man!


                kelt

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kelt06 View Post
                  I disagree, if you don't speak French you can't understand the pun, there is nothing such as racism in it, you need to see the whole show and to be familiar with the antics of Ardisson the guy who was made fun of to understand what went on.

                  Now if you have nothing more important to report, you are a happy man!

                  kelt
                  I understand the play of words very well. It's nice but not brilliant or impressive, so it is not the core of the joke. People would not laugh at a simple play of words Roman/Romanian. The gesture and phrase that follows gives the "finishing touches" to the joke, and that is what makes the joke offensive.

                  I wonder if the Association des Gitans de France (Association of French Gypsies) will react to this. But I guess not since Lambert cleverly did not target their ethnicity/race directly. For the time being the Romanian Embassy and Foreign Affairs Ministry reacted.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                    I understand the play of words very well. It's nice but not brilliant or impressive, so it is not the core of the joke. People would not laugh at a simple play of words Roman/Romanian. The gesture and phrase that follows gives the "finishing touches" to the joke, and that is what makes the joke offensive.

                    I wonder if the Association des Gitans de France (Association of French Gypsies) will react to this. But I guess not since Lambert cleverly did not target their ethnicity/race directly. For the time being the Romanian Embassy and Foreign Affairs Ministry reacted.
                    I don't know anything about the context so I can't comment, but I don't think you should be so easily offended.

                    As for "progressive EU unity and diversity" - The tribes of Europe were killing each other nearly nonstop from before recorded history until 1945 when the threat of annihilation from 2 opposing factions stopped the near nonstop warring in Europe, until that threat ended and more killing amongst rival Europeans started up again.

                    You thought becoming a satellite of Germany/France would make everyone open their arms to your nationalities and play ring around the rosy with you?

                    Europeans can say all they want about 'progressiveness, unity, blah blah blah' but as a whole those nationalist feelings are still there and will be for a while. It is hard to get rid of a thousand years of ingrained dislike ad rivalry in a couple decades because the politicians said "we are united now."
                    Кто там?
                    Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                    Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                      I understand the play of words very well. It's nice but not brilliant or impressive, so it is not the core of the joke. People would not laugh at a simple play of words Roman/Romanian. The gesture and phrase that follows gives the "finishing touches" to the joke, and that is what makes the joke offensive.

                      I wonder if the Association des Gitans de France (Association of French Gypsies) will react to this. But I guess not since Lambert cleverly did not target their ethnicity/race directly. For the time being the Romanian Embassy and Foreign Affairs Ministry reacted.
                      Est-ce que tu comprends le français Imperial? I got the pun as well but agree with you it in general is mocking "those people" from the Eastern Europe in general. I am familiar with the presenter they mention but must say that, knowing many French people and counting friends and colleagues among them that they mock all nationalities-and themselves to boot.

                      It's like that everywhere in Europe, and the world, speaking for myself it depends on the context. There is always a fine line to cross and it is not always clear where that is. I am Canadian and Canadian-born but of Greek parents and furrthermore I have the Greek nationality as well. I can take jokes about lumberjacks with no problem usually, jokes about say ummmm "Greek style" gay jokes depends on the context. Sometimes it is annoying or downright irritating othertimes say with friends in a pub I just "insult" back or emphasize my Canadianess (although with lumberjacks that can backfire ie. see Monty Python).

                      I must say on the other side I understand there are many cultural ties between France and Romania, partly due to language, and I know many Romanians who live, study and work in France.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                        I don't know anything about the context so I can't comment, but I don't think you should be so easily offended.

                        As for "progressive EU unity and diversity" - The tribes of Europe were killing each other nearly nonstop from before recorded history until 1945 when the threat of annihilation from 2 opposing factions stopped the near nonstop warring in Europe, until that threat ended and more killing amongst rival Europeans started up again.
                        Nationalism is still alive, so is xenophobia and racism, but they're not encouraged by mainstream media. On the contrary, mainstream media works very hard to create the image of "unity in diversity" along with the politicians. But in this case we're talking about France 2. It's a channel controlled by a state-owned national television. Add to that the fact that the show was recorded (this means the producers could have stepped in while the show was recorded and propose another ending to that show) and that the moment was not spontaneous (audience acted on cue).

                        Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                        You thought becoming a satellite of Germany/France would make everyone open their arms to your nationalities and play ring around the rosy with you?
                        Well I for one am living in my own country that I haven't left so I don't expect to be welcomed by anyone with open arms. And what I see is foreigners coming over here and taking over factories, companies, banks and public utilities and also foreign products flooding the market and driving local producers into the ground. I also see around 30% of the workforce and skilled professionals evaporating abroad. And then the foreigners' countrymen calling me a beggar and a gypsy from their home-countries because they don't like the bad apples that left along with the good ones. I don't know how should I feel but xenophobia comes to mind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                          Nationalism is still alive, so is xenophobia and racism, but they're not encouraged by mainstream media. On the contrary, mainstream media works very hard to create the image of "unity in diversity" along with the politicians. But in this case we're talking about France 2. It's a channel controlled by a state-owned national television. Add to that the fact that the show was recorded (this means the producers could have stepped in while the show was recorded and propose another ending to that show) and that the moment was not spontaneous (audience acted on cue).



                          Well I for one am living in my own country that I haven't left so I don't expect to be welcomed by anyone with open arms. And what I see is foreigners coming over here and taking over factories, companies, banks and public utilities and also foreign products flooding the market and driving local producers into the ground. I also see around 30% of the workforce and skilled professionals evaporating abroad. And then the foreigners' countrymen calling me a beggar and a gypsy from their home-countries because they don't like the bad apples that left along with the good ones. I don't know how should I feel but xenophobia comes to mind.
                          You should stop throwing buzzwords like xenophobia around. There is nothing wrong with not liking what is going on in your country with EU citizens not from it taking over the businesses. There is nothing wrong with that - it is called caring.

                          As for the Roma - you know, I know they aren't all bad people, but living and spending extensive time in Eastern Europe - I seriously haven't come across one that wasn't pulling some kind of scam or doing some kind of criminal activity. I am not ignorant enough to think they are all like this - but I think before any advocacy group or association of Gypsies starts on some PR campaign, they should do a bit of self policing of their people.

                          Seriously though, try not to get too hung up on people making fun of your country, especially comedians. If I freaked out every time some Russian joke was done (on state ran TV) here in Russia, about Americans I would have had a heart attack a while back. If some French comical show host makes a joke at your expense or even seriously hates you... don't worry about it the world isn't going to end.
                          Кто там?
                          Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                          Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, they certainly weren't pulling any punches or caring a jot what any Roumanians might think (the French tend not to be concerned what foreigners think, like Americans or British btw), but the only real reason the Roumanians got involved was that similarity to "Romans", while taking the mickey out of eastern Europe in general.

                            Kind of poor taste, kind of funny as well. Worse than a lot of say Jay Leno's material? Probably not. Seeing more of that clip might be a good idea for contxt, since one doesn't quite get who the guy making the joke is supposed to be?

                            That could explain a bit. Or maybe not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              funny

                              I think it's actually funny, and i'll tell you what's soo funny;
                              Romania is judged by it's minorities that's funny, what you gonna do about it? convince french commics that gipsies are just a minority, that do what clochars do in France?

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X