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  • #31
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    That's a bit of a stretch, my post there should be taken much more literally,

    your representatives, that is individuals that are mandated to speak for the US, or others that have taken it upon themselves, and like to speak for 'America' on the internet, are more often than not, 'full of it'.

    Meaning, the things they write and say, make little sense, and seem to have limited or no ground in reality, specifically when dealing with US foreign policy.

    I don't know how to express that thought more clearly, yet it still seems to be misunderstood,

    your country is not served well by its representatives.

    Nothing at all to do with humanism.
    The idea that a nation is a piece of geography that is functionally borderless, and populated by people who don't share ideals but just happened to live within certain arbitrary boundary is absurd. The U.S. is defined by being a republic with a constitution that limits democracy to prevent mob rule and has a weak central government with checks and balances to prevent tyranny.

    Saying you like Americans is meaningless emotionalism. You cannot like or dislike anything as poorly defined as American in any meaningful way. You can say you like people but even that has evident limitations as demonstrated by the fact that the politicians you refer to are people.

    I don't like Americans because I have no sense that there is an ethnic or cultural definition of what an American is. The U.S. is one of the most diverse nations in the world for better or worse. We would like to think that the hyphenated American is no longer appropriate but people still retain a lot of ethnic identity. For the most part believing in a liberal democracy with a republican from of government and borders to defend those ideas defines what it means to be an American. (I find the term American offensive because everyone who lives in the Americas is technically an American but we use it as a kind of short hand.)

    That there are large numbers of people that
    ​live within the borders of the U.S. that do not believe in Republican government shows how silly this discussion is. Technically those people are anti American. They do however have the right to alter the constitution but if they do that would redefine what "American" means.

    ​​​​​​BTW when I'm traveling abroad I typically don't like Americans. They are overbearing, rude, and fat with a sense of entitlement. I try to blend in and adopt the local customs. For the most part I have been successfully enough that other tourist assume I'm a local. I actually like the idea of ethnic and cultural diversity.

    We hunt the hunters

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    • #32
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

      The idea that a nation is a piece of geography that is functionally borderless, and populated by people who don't share ideals but just happened to live within certain arbitrary boundary is absurd. The U.S. is defined by being a republic with a constitution that limits democracy to prevent mob rule and has a weak central government with checks and balances to prevent tyranny.

      Saying you like Americans is meaningless emotionalism. You cannot like or dislike anything as poorly defined as American in any meaningful way.

      I don't like Americans because I have no sense that there is an ethnic or cultural definition of what an American is... believing in a liberal democracy with a republican from of government and borders to defend those ideas defines what it means to be an American. (I find the term American offensive because everyone who lives in the Americas is technically an American but we use it as a kind of short hand.)

      BTW when I'm traveling abroad I typically don't like Americans. They are overbearing, rude, and fat with a sense of entitlement. I try to blend in and adopt the local customs. For the most part I have been successfully enough that other tourist assume I'm a local. I actually like the idea of ethnic and cultural diversity.
      Perhaps when and if you travel abroad you should pick another place to live. And your idea of the United States and Americans is hopelessly absurd and disingenuous.

      You are obviously ashamed to be an American and it is your right to choose another country to live in that you can readily accept. Perhaps Russia, China, or North Korea would be more to your liking?

      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #33
        Not supporting the NATO alliance and out allies is a dangerous road to travel. Secretary of Defense Esper should resign over this foreign policy error:

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgdhp

        Trump's plan to pull troops from Germany doesn't address a risk NATO has faced since the start of the Cold War
        • The Trump administration's plans to pull thousands of troops from Germany, moving them elsewhere in Europe and back to the US, elicited backlash at home and abroad.
        • Trump isn't the first US leader to want to reduce the US contribution to Europe's defense, but he hasn't addressed a more consequential part of that commitment, writes Christopher Layne, a professor of international affairs at Texas A&M University
        President Donald Trump wants to withdraw roughly 12,000 US troops from Germany, saying Berlin is "delinquent" and should be doing more to bear the costs of stationing troops there. He is hardly the first American policymaker to feel that the Europeans aren't paying their "fair share" of NATO's defense costs.

        Although transatlantic burden sharing tiffs are a hearty perennial for NATO, Trump's troop withdrawal plan overlooks an even more important issue: risk sharing. This goes back to the Cold War when NATO lacked sufficient conventional forces to repulse a Soviet assault. Hence, NATO strategy relied on America's "nuclear umbrella," based on the first use of nuclear weapons.

        Today, the Baltic States are the new NATO-Russia fault line. The alliance is incapable of defending the Baltics with conventional forces alone. The US brigades that rotate through the Baltic States today are trip wires meant to prompt a nuclear response if Russia attacks — just as were their Cold War counterparts in West Germany.







        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #34
          With allies like USA, EU doesn't need enemies.
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            Saying you like Americans is meaningless emotionalism.
            Never said that, would be strange, I know very few of them...

            I like the US, the concept, you are our political offspring after all, your ideals were pioneered right here, in the low countries by the North Sea, shipped with your ancestors to the new world.

            Culturally - I like your music, your movies and literature, they are part of my own reference cadre, probably more then you realise.

            I suspect it's the same for many of my age,

            but when US Americans start to discuss foreign policy, they are, as stated, more often than not, full of it

            Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

              Never said that, would be strange, I know very few of them...

              I like the US, the concept, you are our political offspring after all, your ideals were pioneered right here, in the low countries by the North Sea, shipped with your ancestors to the new world.

              Culturally - I like your music, your movies and literature, they are part of my own reference cadre, probably more then you realise.

              I suspect it's the same for many of my age,

              but when US Americans start to discuss foreign policy, they are, as stated, more often than not, full of it
              I knew what you meant but I wanted to make a point about what being a citizen meant. If you don't agree with the foundational principles of the nation you live in you are just an occupant or revolutionary.

              Many people swear and oath of allegiance to a constitution they clearly don't believe in. That would be most of the elected officials in the Democratic party. That would be fine if they wanted to legally change it but they have so little sense of propriety that for reasons of political expediency they prefer to just ignore it.

              We hunt the hunters

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                Many people swear and oath of allegiance to a constitution they clearly don't believe in. That would be most of the elected officials in the Democratic party.
                Do you have a cite for that statistic? If not, it's just a contrary political opinion. Having an opinion different than your own doesn't make the other opinion wrong.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bow View Post

                  For a country that has never had a war since 1864, you have a very big mouth and please dont pull that "e saved Europe Etc,,,,WW1 you guys didnt show up until 1917m ..... WW2 if the Japanese hadnt made a cockup and bomb Pearl harbour you would never have got involvedyou \\
                  P.lease keep your personal insults to yourself, and try to stay focused on the subject.

                  No wars since 1864? WWI, WWII, The Cold War, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...in fact, America has been almost constantly at war for many decades. I am surprised you do not know that.

                  As for Japan and Pearl Harbor, Lend Lease to Britain and Russia were underway before Pearl Harbor, and the torpedoing of American ships by German submarines would have brought America into the war even if the Japanese didn't.

                  To return to the subject of my post, it is time for Europe to assume their own defense responsibilities. It costs America a fortune every year to maintain those forces so many take for granted overseas, and for us to assume the role of policeman to a world long overdue to handle its own problems.

                  Europe should have done this long go. With the rise of anti-America sentiment such as you just displayed, there is no longer any valid reason for us to be protecting anyone by being on their soil, and some very good reasons for us not being there.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                    Do you have a cite for that statistic? If not, it's just a contrary political opinion. Having an opinion different than your own doesn't make the other opinion wrong.
                    Oath of Office in America. You should look it up. It's even been in the news multiple times, especially when a Muslim takes office and swears on a Foran.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Many people swear and oath of allegiance to a constitution they clearly don't believe in. That would be most of the elected officials in the Democratic party
                      Trump isn't democratic
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                        Trump isn't democratic
                        He was elected.
                        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          Oath of Office in America. You should look it up. It's even been in the news multiple times, especially when a Muslim takes office and swears on a Foran.
                          So the majority (that means most) of Democrats don't believe in the Constitution? Once again, show me some statistics.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Ah, the myth that "Europe" is anti-American. The notion that the (majority of the) 720 million people of "Europe" all dislike "America" is quite distorted.
                            I guess it's likely that most "Americans" have a more nuanced opinion on "Europe".

                            But for a few simple-minded the us-against-them mentality, the "they are backstabbers"-mentality, the "they should be forever gratefull and therefore always think like us and do as we do"-mentality seems to fill a void.
                            ​​
                            Some people rather thrive on designating an enemy on the outside. Actually, oldest trick in the world, isn't it?

                            Too bad the "philosopher" of this forum doesn't jump in right now with a sermon about emotions and feelings as he would otherwise do . Oh, I forgot......
                            "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                              I knew what you meant but I wanted to make a point about what being a citizen meant. If you don't agree with the foundational principles of the nation you live in you are just an occupant or revolutionary.
                              Nationalist states are a relatively new invention in the grand scheme of things. People, governments and nations go and come. They don't have some sacred right inherited from the monarchs of yesteryear to hold onto a piece of land. It's the citizens who decide what they will be part of. Trying to force them to abide to the old order will always result in disaster.
                              Wisdom is personal

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Rutger View Post
                                Ah, the myth that "Europe" is anti-American. The notion that the (majority of the) 720 million people of "Europe" all dislike "America" is quite distorted.
                                I guess it's likely that most "Americans" have a more nuanced opinion on "Europe".

                                But for a few simple-minded the us-against-them mentality, the "they are backstabbers"-mentality, the "they should be forever gratefull and therefore always think like us and do as we do"-mentality seems to fill a void.
                                ​​
                                Some people rather thrive on designating an enemy on the outside. Actually, oldest trick in the world, isn't it?

                                Too bad the "philosopher" of this forum doesn't jump in right now with a sermon about emotions and feelings as he would otherwise do . Oh, I forgot......
                                I agree, And the attached video explains the old trick well,

                                 
                                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                                Comment

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