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  • Hurting Military readiness

    Former US commander: Troop withdrawal from Germany 'gift to Kremlin'

    Former US commander in Europe Lieutenant General Ben Hodges has slammed President Donald Trump's plan to withdraw troops from Germany. In a DW interview, he says it will hurt diplomatic ties and US Army capability.

    https://www.dw.com/en/us-german-rela...wal/a-54370725


    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  • #2
    Yeah but Merkel is really taking the pi$$.

    NATO rules say 2% of GDP should be spent on defence, Germany was spending, what? 1.4% or something, with a promise to reach the 2% target in 2030

    That is also a gift to the Kremlin.

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    • #3
      It is well past time for Germany and the Euro to assume the entire burden of their own defense. It's their freedom, so they can protect it.

      And if it "hurts military readiness", then that just means they haven't been training they way they should have been. Meanwhile,everyone over there screams at America every time we do anything anyway, so time for them to make their own decisions, take their own actions and live with it.

      America is not their babysitter.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        It is well past time for Germany and the Euro to assume the entire burden of their own defense. It's their freedom, so they can protect it.

        And if it "hurts military readiness", then that just means they haven't been training they way they should have been. Meanwhile,everyone over there screams at America every time we do anything anyway, so time for them to make their own decisions, take their own actions and live with it.

        America is not their babysitter.
        For a country that has never had a war since 1864, you have a very big mouth and please dont pull that "e saved Europe Etc,,,,WW1 you guys didnt show up until 1917m ..... WW2 if the Japanese hadnt made a cockup and bomb Pearl harbour you would never have got involvedyou \\

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        • #5
          With all due respect, FDR would have had us in in another year or 18 months. The Japanese could not wait that long. They had only so much oil and the government told the IJN they had to share it.

          1864? You are missing a whole year of the ACW, the Spanish American War and several insurrections, to say the least.

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gooner View Post
            Yeah but Merkel is really taking the pi$$.

            NATO rules say 2% of GDP should be spent on defence, Germany was spending, what? 1.4% or something, with a promise to reach the 2% target in 2030

            That is also a gift to the Kremlin.
            No it isn't, the rest of the EU is spending less, Trump has a bug up his Ass about Germany, there are no US Combat Formations in Germany anymore, there havn't been in in 25 years, other than Ramstein AFB what the hell are we talking about here?
            Last edited by Trung Si; 30 Jul 20, 21:14.
            Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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            • #7
              The EU will still only be shouldering a small part of the burden if they replace U.S. ground forces. Maintaining the carrier task forces, nuclear deterrent, and energy stability will still be a U.S. burden.

              The U.S. will also still have to provide stability in the Pacific with little help from the EU.

              That people on the continent do not like the U.S. is clear. That shouldn't interfere with mutual self inerest. It's in the EU's interest in this case to allow the U.S. to shift more resources to the Pacific. Russia on the world stage is now bad guy number two.
              We hunt the hunters

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                (...)
                NATO rules say 2% of GDP should be spent on defence, Germany was spending, what? 1.4% or something, with a promise to reach the 2% target in 2030
                Have you read the actual text ? I did, posted here at one time too, I'll see if I can find it again.

                You'll find there's no 'promise', there's no 'rule', there's no "debt" to NATO.

                There's a freely written declaration of intent to "work towards" spending 2% on average, on national defence.

                Edit,

                Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will:
                • halt any decline in defence expenditure;
                • aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows;
                • aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls.
                Also it was signed by a different US president originally, we're not all sure it's still valid, it may be like the Paris agreement, or the Nuclear deal with Iran
                Last edited by Snowygerry; 31 Jul 20, 01:27.
                Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                  (...)
                  That people on the continent do not like the U.S. is clear.
                  We like the US plenty - it's your representatives, self-declared or otherwise that are full of it

                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                    Have you read the actual text ? I did, posted here at one time too, I'll see if I can find it again.

                    You'll find there's no 'promise', there's no 'rule', there's no "debt" to NATO.
                    There is this

                    "Our Alliance remains an essential source of stability in this unpredictable world. Together as strong democracies, we are united in our commitment to the Washington Treaty and the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. Based on solidarity, Alliance cohesion, and the indivisibility of our security, NATO remains the transatlantic framework for strong collective defence and the essential forum for security consultations and decisions among Allies. The greatest responsibility of the Alliance is to protect and defend our territories and our populations against attack, as set out in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty. As stated in the Transatlantic Declaration that we issued today, we are committed to further strengthening the transatlantic bond and to providing the resources, capabilities, and political will required to ensure our Alliance remains ready to meet any challenge. We stand ready to act together and decisively to defend freedom and our shared values of individual liberty, human rights, democracy, and the rule of law."


                    If you don't believe in that, then leave.


                    There's a freely written declaration of intent to "work towards" spending 2% on average, on national defence.
                    This is 2014 remember. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/o...xts_112964.htm

                    "We agree to reverse the trend of declining defence budgets, to make the most effective use of our funds and to further a more balanced sharing of costs and responsibilities. Our overall security and defence depend both on how much we spend and how we spend it. Increased investments should be directed towards meeting our capability priorities, and Allies also need to display the political will to provide required capabilities and deploy forces when they are needed. A strong defence industry across the Alliance, including a stronger defence industry in Europe and greater defence industrial cooperation within Europe and across the Atlantic, remains essential for delivering the required capabilities. NATO and EU efforts to strengthen defence capabilities are complementary. Taking current commitments into account, we are guided by the following considerations:
                    • Allies currently meeting the NATO guideline to spend a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) on defence will aim to continue to do so. Likewise, Allies spending more than 20% of their defence budgets on major equipment, including related Research & Development, will continue to do so.
                    • Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will:
                      • halt any decline in defence expenditure;
                      • aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows;
                      • aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls."


                    "Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer said Germany would spend 2% of its economic output on defence by 2031, belatedly reaching the goal set by NATO leaders at a 2014 summit,"
                    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ge...-idUKKBN1XH1IG



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                    • #11
                      ...aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls.
                      The same clause that was repeated in 2018.

                      I can "aim to move towards you with a view to meeting" all day long, doesn't mean we will ever actually meet does it ?

                      That's neither a "promise", nor a firm commitment, and a "guideline" is not a "rule".

                      Regardless of what the Amis think about it, never going to happen
                      Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                      • #12
                        Europeans acting in bad faith shocker!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                          If you don't believe in that, then leave.
                          You leave - your bloody HQ is here, move it to Poland.
                          Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                            We like the US plenty - it's your representatives, self-declared or otherwise that are full of it
                            You don't like the idea of a Republic but humanism forces you to qualify your dislike by saying you love people everywhere. A country is not just a random collection of people it's the ideals that it represents.
                            We hunt the hunters

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                            • #15

                              "They don't like us anyway".

                              Grow up. It's pretty rare for hundreds of millions of people to think all alike, be they "Europeans" or citizens of the USA.

                              Oh, the UK is a European country by the way.



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                              "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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