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  • Handke's Nobel price with protests

    This price wasnt quiet as usual. It came with cerain people protesting against it and some other Nobel price winners gave back their price because of Hanke

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...r-peter-handke

  • #2
    He seems to want to "redistribute" the guilt for the atrocities of the war, from just "the Serbs did it" to the "Muslims committed atrocities too ..." - not exactly news.

    He doesn't write all that badly, not exceptionally good either imho.

    Et arrêtons d'attribuer les viols aux seuls Serbes. Et arrêtons de connecter les mots unilatéralement, à la manière du chien de Pavlov. Elargissons l'ouverture. Que la brèche ne soit plus jamais bouchée par les mots pourris et empoisonnés. Mauvais esprit dehors. Quittez enfin le langage. Apprenons l'art de la question, voyageons au pays sonore, au nom de la Yougoslavie, au nom d'une autre Europe. Vive l'autre Europe. Vive la Yougoslavie. Zinela Yugoslavija.
    https://www.liberation.fr/tribune/20...goslavie_38687

    Why do you boycott him exactly ? And for which work did he receive the Nobel literature prize ?
    Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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    • #3
      He's not exactly new either he's been writing since the 60s :

      https://www.britannica.com/biography/Peter-Handke

      Die Angst des Tormanns beim Elfmeter (1970; The Goalie’s Anxiety at the Penalty Kick), is an imaginative thriller about a former football (soccer) player who commits a pointless murder and then waits for the police to take him into custody.
      Doesn't sound so bad does it ?

      It's a movie even :

      https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ew-wim-wenders

      Wim Wenders’s debut movie from 1972, now on rerelease, is a fantastically strange, lugubrious existential crime noir based on the novel by Peter Handke (with whom Wenders co-wrote the screenplay).
      Seems they gave the literature prize to a well-known, and generally appreciated writer, who just happens to have some controversial opinions on the Yugoslav civil war.

      That's about what's to be expected from the Nobel committee no ?
      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
        He's not exactly new either he's been writing since the 60s :

        https://www.britannica.com/biography/Peter-Handke



        Doesn't sound so bad does it ?

        It's a movie even :

        https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ew-wim-wenders



        Seems they gave the literature prize to a well-known, and generally appreciated writer, who just happens to have some controversial opinions on the Yugoslav civil war.

        That's about what's to be expected from the Nobel committee no ?

        To be truthful, i haven't read any of his books so i can't judge personally.

        Some people said that his mother is a serbian and he supported war criminal Milosevic durring serbian atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo and even got his yugoslav passport ( he was on Milosevic funeral too)
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Daud; 14 Dec 19, 14:02.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
          He seems to want to "redistribute" the guilt for the atrocities of the war, from just "the Serbs did it" to the "Muslims committed atrocities too ..." - not exactly news.

          He doesn't write all that badly, not exceptionally good either imho.



          https://www.liberation.fr/tribune/20...goslavie_38687

          Why do you boycott him exactly ? And for which work did he receive the Nobel literature prize ?
          My friend told me that there is a political goal from serbian side to make an ethnic balance in war crimes and to relativize certain crimes and Handke's works helping.
          Last edited by Daud; 14 Dec 19, 14:01.

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          • #6
            So I've read yes, he seems to have family ties to former Yugoslavia and was presumably emotionally attached to it.

            Plenty of people I suspect were at the M. funeral, but he seems to have been the best writer there

            It is also said he "denies" the Bosnian genocide but I've seen no evidence for that, his problem seems to be the likening to the German camps of WWII AND the fact that the Serbs are painted as the sole offenders….

            I haven't read him either (well just the French article posted above), but looked around a bit, most critics agree he writes well, that's all that's needed for literature prize - I guess.

            Originally posted by Daud View Post
            my friend told me that there is political goal from serbian side to make an ethnic balance in war crimes and to relativize certain crimes and Handke's works helping.
            I can understand that yes - nothing to do with the Nobel prize though.

            It's not the Serbs that make up the Nobel Committee after all.
            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Daud View Post

              my friend told me that there is political goal from serbian side to make an ethnic balance in war crimes and to relativize certain crimes and Handke's works helping.
              It's not a hard thing to do.

              . . . . “My sources were low-level KLA guys who were drivers or were in vehicles when these people were driven. But as these were the low-level guys they didn’t know the whole picture.”

              According to Montgomery, he and his team didn’t have enough corroboration to publish a story, but they did produce a memo which they sent to UN Mission in Kosovo, UNMIK, which was the administrative authority in Kosovo after the war ended in June 1999.

              “We had multiple sources but not everything lined up. We had people who heard that people have been taken away for their kidneys. There were couple of houses we were able to locate where these things allegedly happened, but we decided we didn’t have enough information to publish and that at the time our evidence didn’t support the allegations,” he said.

              The memo they sent to UNMIK went to the UN-backed International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, ICTY, which was then investigating crimes committed during the Kosovo war.

              In 2004, Montgomery accompanied a joint team of investigators from the ICTY and UNMIK on a visit to a farmhouse near the Albanian town of Burrel.

              It was alleged that Serb prisoners were taken by KLA fighters to the farmhouse, now widely known as the ‘Yellow House’, to have their organs harvested for sale.

              The team found medical equipment, including syringes, intravenous drip bags, and stomach tranquilisers at the Yellow House. However, this evidence was later destroyed by the ICTY after the investigation was dropped because there was not enough proof to mount prosecutions.

              Montgomery’s initial investigation only become public when the ICTY’s former prosecutor, Carla del Ponte, published his original memo in her memoirs in 2009.

              “It doesn’t name us but says the information came from reliable journalists. Carla del Ponte was very frustrated with the failure of the ICTY to prosecute KLA leaders and there was a lot of intimidation of witnesses. I think she put information in the book because she wanted to spark an investigation, and it did,” Montgomery explained.

              After Del Ponte published her book, the Council of Europe set up a team lead by rapporteur Dick Marty, who in 2011 published a report saying that evidence was mounting that groups including senior KLA guerrillas had been part of an organ-harvesting and trafficking network operating from a villa in the town of Fushe Kruje, Albania, which was part of an established network.

              Some ethnic Serbs and Albanians were killed there, the report alleges, after which their kidneys were removed. The report also details other alleged human rights abuses by elements connected to the KLA, as well as “a nexus” between KLA elements and organised crime.

              After the report, the EU set up a task force which conducted a three-year investigation into the allegations and a released its own report which said there was evidence to prosecute unnamed senior Kosovo Liberation Army officials for crimes against humanity including abductions and murders committed after the 1999 conflict. . . . .

              "Kosovo Organ-Trafficking: How the Claims were Exposed," by Marija Mistic, Balkan Insight, 4 Sep 2015
              If ever there's been a region totally lacking in "white hats," it's the Balkans.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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              • #8
                They gave Obama a peace prize based on things he never did, so anything is possible, no matter how improbable.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  They gave Obama a peace prize based on things he never did, so anything is possible, no matter how improbable.
                  The peace prize is delegated to the Norwegian branch of the Nobel committee I think, literature are the Swedes themselves, not sure
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Daud View Post
                    some people said that his mother is serbian and he supported war criminsl Milosevic durrin srbian atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo and even got his yugoslav passport ( he was on Milosevic funeral too)
                    She's Slovenian. Ha talked a lot about her in his Nobel Lecture when receiving his prize.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      They gave Obama a peace prize based on things he never did, so anything is possible, no matter how improbable.
                      No the Norwegian parliament did that. Handle was given his prize by the Swedish Academy.

                      (I.e. the literary academy; the physics and chemistry prizes are awarded by the Royal Academy of Science, and the physiology or medicine one by the Nobel Committee of the Karolinska Institutet Medical University).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Daud View Post

                        my friend told me that there is political goal from serbian side to make an ethnic balance in war crimes and to relativize certain crimes and Handke's works helping.
                        I'd say on balance Handke is a bit of a political idiot. He IS useful for that Serbian agenda, but his own position is way more subtle. It's actually nothing as crude as denying fx the Srebrenica massacre.

                        Tha Swedish Academy is kind of in the dumps for reasons of its own. It's credibility is seriously stretched, so it could ill-afford to pick a laureate that might come with a whiff of controversy. But then it went and did just that.

                        What it has since done – and with some decent arguments – is insist that it is a prize for Handke's literary out-put alone, separating it of from his politics (many critics disagree with that), AND insisting that if looked into the condemnations of Handke's political position are in many cases blown out of proportion.

                        BUT since the Swedish Academy HAS a serious credibility issue, its critics are smelling blood precisely because it is weakened, and a what would otherwise be a something it could fairly quickly dimiss, or at least weather well, becomes a major crisis.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                          No the Norwegian parliament did that. Handle was given his prize by the Swedish Academy.

                          (I.e. the literary academy; the physics and chemistry prizes are awarded by the Royal Academy of Science, and the physiology or medicine one by the Nobel Committee of the Karolinska Institutet Medical University).
                          If the Norwegian parliament was even remotely involved, the Academy is compromised and all of its awards should be heavily scrutinized.

                          But thank you for proving my point: with the Nobel, literally anything is possible no matter how outrageous.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            If the Norwegian parliament was even remotely involved, the Academy is compromised and all of its awards should be heavily scrutinized.

                            But thank you for proving my point: with the Nobel, literally anything is possible no matter how outrageous.
                            What do you mean? What you posted makes no sense.

                            The Norwegian parliament is the Norwegian parliament. There is not academy involved in its decisions. It was stipulated in Alfred Nobel's will of 1901 that the Norwegian parliament awards the peace prize. No academy is doing jack in relation to it.

                            The money for the prizes is managed by the Nobel Trust in Stockholm, but is required to keep its hands off of the decision processes behind the actual awards. That's left to the four awarding bodies individually. Of which the Norwegian parliament is one... for the peace one...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                              What do you mean? What you posted makes no sense.

                              The Norwegian parliament is the Norwegian parliament. There is not academy involved in its decisions. It was stipulated in Alfred Nobel's will of 1901 that the Norwegian parliament awards the peace prize. No academy is doing jack in relation to it.

                              The money for the prizes is managed by the Nobel Trust in Stockholm, but is required to keep its hands off of the decision processes behind the actual awards. That's left to the four awarding bodies individually. Of which the Norwegian parliament is one... for the peace one...
                              Didn't know that either, thanks for clarifying.
                              Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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